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Post by kappa on Aug 30, 2019 13:57:06 GMT
Just a few small things I saw that were not properly reflected in the traits for a few Targ characters. Starting with the children of Jaehaerys
Alyssa Targaryen currently has no fighter trait, and considering this quote "As a child, she did not act like a girl. She would dress in boy's clothes whenever possible, and preferred to ride, climb, and duel with wooden swords over more lady-like activities, and shunned the company of girls. She had a warrior's heart, according to Archmaester Gyldayn." It seems likely she would be at least a poor if not even a trained fighter. Uncouth would also fit her well.
Maegelle Targaryen should be quick "As a girl, Princess Maegelle was gentle, quiet, studious, and exceedingly bright"
Daella Targaryen should be slow "The princess was not clever. Although she could read, Daella could only do so haltingly, and without full comprehension. She did not speak until she was almost two years of age. She was unable to memorize even the simplest prayers."
Viserra Targaryen should be groomed, described as both vain and uncannily graceful. She should also arguably be lustful, but that one is more up for debate.
Gael Targaryen could perhaps have the title of "The Winter Child".
I understand you guys aren't doing regular updates anymore, but trait changes are very quick, I've already amended my own files but every update breaks it obviously. I think most of these changes are quite accurate. I will be adding more suggestions about the Targ family traits over time.
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Post by Paxter Redwyne on Aug 30, 2019 15:50:55 GMT
Just a few small things I saw that were not properly reflected in the traits for a few Targ characters. Starting with the children of Jaehaerys Alyssa Targaryen currently has no fighter trait, and considering this quote "As a child, she did not act like a girl. She would dress in boy's clothes whenever possible, and preferred to ride, climb, and duel with wooden swords over more lady-like activities, and shunned the company of girls. She had a warrior's heart, according to Archmaester Gyldayn." It seems likely she would be at least a poor if not even a trained fighter. Uncouth would also fit her well. Giving her some martial skill seems reasonable Seems fine by me. I considered this, but the problem I had was that it would make her on tier with Gael and she was obviously even less smart, but I don't believe Gael is enough of a lackwit to classify her as imbecile(sadly the Fire and Blood didn't provide much info about her life). She already is fair and has proud trait to highlight her vanity. Considering that she died a virgin, I don't think she should be lustful. Noted No need to worry, we still work on history files, it's just that we don't release new versions every time we make small change in one character's traits and we also need to work on other stuff besides history files before we release new update. If you have any other suggestions, feel free to post them, we will consider adding them(if they are reasonable enough of course, heh).
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Post by caeserion on Aug 30, 2019 18:25:27 GMT
You could give Daella the dull trait
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Post by Paxter Redwyne on Aug 30, 2019 20:05:43 GMT
You could give Daella the dull trait Considering that she allegedly couldn't speak until almost two years old, if anything, her stupidity is congenital .
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Post by ogarrr on Aug 30, 2019 22:24:50 GMT
I would also add that Fire and Blood states that Viserys II excelled at combat when he was trained in Lys. He currently has poor_warrior, but should probably have trained_warrior.
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Post by caeserion on Aug 30, 2019 23:33:51 GMT
You could give Daella the dull trait Considering that she allegedly couldn't speak until almost two years old, if anything, her stupidity is congenital . She is the daughter of 2 of the best monarchs Westeros apparently ever had. Danaerys, Aemon, Baelon, Alyssa, Vaegon, and Maegelle all demonstrate intelligence at an early age so I doubt her condition is congenital. We also don't hear anything about her daughter Aemma so she's probably normal. Gael is slow probably because of the late pregnancy (children born to mothers later in life do tend to have more issues than children born to younger mothers, on average). Daella probably has a learning disabilty and some form of social impediment which can't be represented in-game beyond the shy trait.
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Post by Paxter Redwyne on Aug 31, 2019 0:02:33 GMT
Considering that she allegedly couldn't speak until almost two years old, if anything, her stupidity is congenital . She is the daughter of 2 of the best monarchs Westeros apparently ever had. Danaerys, Aemon, Baelon, Alyssa, Vaegon, and Maegelle all demonstrate intelligence at an early age so I doubt her condition is congenital. We also don't hear anything about her daughter Aemma so she's probably normal. Gael is slow probably because of the late pregnancy (children born to mothers later in life do tend to have more issues than children born to younger mothers, on average). Daella probably has a learning disabilty and some form of social impediment which can't be represented in-game beyond the shy trait. Congenital means present from birth. It doesn't necessary mean that it was inherited from parents. She was slow since birth, thus dull doesn't really match her as it is supposed to be stupidity acquired through education.
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Post by ouristhefury on Aug 31, 2019 0:17:55 GMT
Suggestion from me: Aerys should be Malnourished and Uncouth since the Defiance of Duskendale
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Post by lordumber93 on Aug 31, 2019 5:10:30 GMT
I would give Aemon Targaryen, The old King's son, strong and replace Baelon's fair with quick. Since Aemon is described as "a modest child, neither as quick nor as fierce as his brother", but also as "Taller, and stronger besides." Or make him a better warrior to represent his 6'2"+ size and skill at arms. Since this mod lacks agility traits, it seems more accurate.
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Post by kappa on Sept 1, 2019 8:10:08 GMT
Continuing trait suggestions here
Aenys should not be craven, I assume it's supposed to suggest his indecision but here's a direct quote from Sons of the Dragon "The boy was diligent, his instructors agreed, and did not want for courage, but he lacked his sire’s size and strength, and was never more than adequate as a fighter, even when the king pressed Blackfyre into his hands, as he did from time to time. Aenys would not disgrace himself in battle, his tutors told one another, but no songs would ever be sung about his prowess." So clearly he wasn't really craven? He wasn't exactly brave either but he should be neutral in this regard. He also should perhaps have poet, "He was a good singer himself, and had a "strong, sweet voice". And I also really, REALLY dont get why he's shy. Yes he was indecisive and buckled to peer pressure, but several quotes also suggest he was anything but a poor socializer, in fact all his issues stemmed from indecisiveness not stupidy, a lack of charisma or a real lack of martial talent. Here's a quote on his social aspect " He was courteous and charming, clever without being bookish. He made friends easily, and young girls seemed to dote on him, be they highborn or low." He was a pretty weak and ineffectual ruler, but not nearly so incompetent as he currently is in game.
Now onto Aenys chilren, Rhaena should have shy removed once she becomes a dragonrider "Rhaena began to overgrow her shyness. Although she would remain quiet, she could no longer be considered timid after she had flown for the first time." She should also gain brave when she gains wroth, "At eighteen, Rhaena was considered brave, fierce and headstrong." but lose both (or at least wroth) later, "Due to numerous betrayals and tragedies in later life, she became withdrawn and detached."
For Aenys second child Aegon there is an argument he should be genetically strong like Aegon I "Some said he was the very image of his grandsire at the same age." and perhaps wroth "The moment they set off, their escort were jeered by crowds and even pelted with dirt. Aegon had to be restrained by knights in the escort from trying to chastise the culprits as their party was outnumbered." although given context perhaps pride and bravery alone is enough to explain his reaction.
Moving back to Jaehaerys' offspring for a moment Baelon the Brave for some reason has "died of natural causes" in game currently, an accident at least would make more sense if you don't want to create a custom death type for it. I also think both he and his wife Alyssa should both have "family person", "They call me Baelon the Brave, but you are far braver than me. I would sooner fight a dozen battles than do what you’ve just done.", "You were made for battles, and I was made for this. Viserys and Daemon and Aegon, that's three. As soon as I am well, let's make another. I want to give you twenty sons. An army of your own!" clearly their family is of great importance to them. This is also shown elsewhere with Baelons friendship with his older brother and Alyssa defending her sister Daella from Vaegons insults.
Moving further forward to Daemon, son of Baelon the Brave he lacks the "ambitious" trait despite that being almost his defining characteristic. I mean, there's a direct quote here "He was also ambitious, impetuous, mercurial, amoral, reckless, and quick to take offense." but nearly his entire story is about his crazy ambitions.
Moving to Daemons children, starting with Baela. She should arguably have at least poor if not trained fighter, I realize she was a dragonrider and potentially didn't necessarily need to learn to fight in hand to hand, but she showed early interest in it " As a young girl she was oft chastised for wrestling with squires in the yard" and played a small part in a war, I'd think she'd at least know the basics.
Aegon the Dragonbane should likely be chaste and temperate "he would always remain a melancholy man who found pleasure in almost nothing, who disliked being touched, and who would retreat to his chambers for days on end, brooding alone", given this quote it's unlikely he indulged much in either food or sex, and indeed he is described as lean.
Viserys II should be a trained fighter "He was well-educated by tutors during his captivity, and excelled at the art of swordsmanship under his master-at-arms." Also should likely be diligent given the loyal years of work with limited gratitude he put in for his brother and nephew.
Now for Aegon the Dragonbanes children, Daeron should perhaps be erudite, considering he wrote an entire book (albeit how much was done by him personally, who knows) or quick, given while he certainly didn't understand the full ramifications of invading Dorne he still managed to create a suitable battle plan and enact it as a teenage king, which in and of itself is fairly impressive and shows a fairly high level of innate intelligence.
Baelor the Blessed should become malnourished at some point during his adult life and should most certainly be temperate (he currently can become fat hilariously enough) "He was very thin (due to his repeated fasts) and frail looking." I personally also think he should be arbitrary, as you look at the way he dealt with his sisters (punishing them for being attractive females) vs how he dealt with the Dornish who killed his brothers assassins and he seems all over the place.
Rhaena (sister of Baelor) should likely be diligent "Rhaena was dutiful, meek, and passive.", diligent is the best representation of a dutiful nature in game. And arguably fashionable, "She loved lace and gold trim and often embroidered depictions of faith on her clothing.", white and gold lace looks beautiful tbh and does show some good fashion sense.
Eleana Targaryen should be fair, I realize she wasn't as pretty as her sisters early, but she clearly still had good attractive genes "Elaena was a not great beauty in her youth, unlike like her sisters. At age eleven, she was described as a "skinny little thing", awkward and angular, shy and charming by turns. However, her beauty matured as she grew older, and its was said that she was more beautiful at age seventy than at age seventeen." I'm also not sure if she should be lustful. I understand why she is (she had at least two bastards and potentially three) but lets dissect that for a moment. The first two were both with the same man, and a man she loved and wished to marry, that does not really fit the lustful trait (one that suggest promiscuity). The third potential bastard Viserys isn't even 100% confirmed as far as I'm aware and regardless, it's the only time we know of that she would have slept with somebody she either did not love or was married to.
To briefly touch on Viserys I children, I do believe Daeron the Daring should be humble "My Lord is kind to say so, but the victory belongs to Tessarion." and "Daeron grew up in the shadow of his brothers, and therefore became more accustomed to following orders than giving them" suggest as much.
I will add more later.
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Post by Paxter Redwyne on Sept 1, 2019 11:55:39 GMT
Suggestion from me: Aerys should be Malnourished and Uncouth since the Defiance of Duskendale Uncouth is trait that is gained via education as a child.
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Post by Karl on Sept 1, 2019 16:48:33 GMT
Suggestion from me: Aerys should be Malnourished and Uncouth since the Defiance of Duskendale Uncouth is trait that is gained via education as a child. You can get Uncouth in a number of ways as an adult as well. King Aerys was definitely Uncouth in the novels - nails like claws, beard a tangled mess, etc. It's up to the mod creators if they want to add that to their mod, though.
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Post by Paxter Redwyne on Sept 1, 2019 18:21:58 GMT
I would give Aemon Targaryen, The old King's son, strong and replace Baelon's fair with quick. Since Aemon is described as "a modest child, neither as quick nor as fierce as his brother", but also as "Taller, and stronger besides." Or make him a better warrior to represent his 6'2"+ size and skill at arms. Since this mod lacks agility traits, it seems more accurate. Can you provide more support for this claim? I don't recall Aemon being very muscular and being tall doesn't make character automatically strong(as a side note 6'2" isn't enough to make him int the mod tall either). And being stronger than Baelon doesn't suggest that he was some athlete, it just states that he was stronger than his brother. And I don't understand how being quicker makes you inherently intelligent.
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Post by lordumber93 on Sept 4, 2019 19:46:27 GMT
I would give Aemon Targaryen, The old King's son, strong and replace Baelon's fair with quick. Since Aemon is described as "a modest child, neither as quick nor as fierce as his brother", but also as "Taller, and stronger besides." Or make him a better warrior to represent his 6'2"+ size and skill at arms. Since this mod lacks agility traits, it seems more accurate. Can you provide more support for this claim? I don't recall Aemon being very muscular and being tall doesn't make character automatically strong(as a side note 6'2" isn't enough to make him int the mod tall either). And being stronger than Baelon doesn't suggest that he was some athlete, it just states that he was stronger than his brother. And I don't understand how being quicker makes you inherently intelligent. Once asearchoficeandfire updates, I can provide more quotes, currently going off ones I remember from the audio books and traits in the mod. They're both skilled warriors, but Aemon is described as stronger, not smarter than Baelon. Which is why I suggest the change from quick to strong. Baelons change is simply because the mod lacks agility traits and that's the only trait(I know the in fit condition modifier exists, but it's a modifier) I can think of as a replacement. That's also why I suggested changing Aemon's skilled warrior trait to formidable if the change in genetic traits isn't acceptable. I'll be honest, I don't know the teams discretion when it comes to doleing out traits and whether you consider nutrition, genetics, and upbringing to be factors.
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Post by Paxter Redwyne on Sept 4, 2019 20:38:46 GMT
Can you provide more support for this claim? I don't recall Aemon being very muscular and being tall doesn't make character automatically strong(as a side note 6'2" isn't enough to make him int the mod tall either). And being stronger than Baelon doesn't suggest that he was some athlete, it just states that he was stronger than his brother. And I don't understand how being quicker makes you inherently intelligent. Once asearchoficeandfire updates, I can provide more quotes, currently going off ones I remember from the audio books and traits in the mod. They're both skilled warriors, but Aemon is described as stronger, not smarter than Baelon. Which is why I suggest the change from quick to strong. Baelons change is simply because the mod lacks agility traits and that's the only trait(I know the in fit condition modifier exists, but it's a modifier) I can think of as a replacement. That's also why I suggested changing Aemon's skilled warrior trait to formidable if the change in genetic traits isn't acceptable. I'll be honest, I don't know the teams discretion when it comes to doleing out traits and whether you consider nutrition, genetics, and upbringing to be factors. I don't think comparision between two brothers is a good reason for those changes.
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