Post by lunasmeow on Oct 30, 2019 20:58:47 GMT
So yeah, i doubt we ever gonna get a definitively answers for this, but is a good oportunity to look of how GRRM treats historical books in his world, they should not be taken as absoluty true, but as creations of people in the world, so is always good to have this in mind ^^
The thing to ask with Aenar, though, is: what evidence do we have that he was forcibly and not voluntarily exiled? I haven't seen any evidence, though of course I may have forgotten something - despite my fanatical fandom I haven't memorized the whole corpus, heh.
On the other hand, other than the direct statement in TWOIAF I quoted above, we also have records of how he brought all his wives, his family, all his property, his dragons, etc. People who are forcibly exiled usually don't get to do that.
So while we cannot reach 100% certainty, that is not the same as to say we have no idea. We can have a pretty good idea of how things are even if we don't reach 100% certainty.
While the show has its many flaws, GRRM does often remind us that the history books aren't always right, (Those same Maesters that cannot agree on the nature of dragons, and they had actual dragons alive to be able to study, let alone anything further back!) and a leader making propaganda is far more likely than a very "super specific" Dragon Dream, especially considering what visions (particularly Dragon Dreams) we have seen in the actual books. They're like typical prophecy, unclear, full of symbolism and never what they seem to be. So the idea that Daenys just had a very clear, super specific warning of the Doom? I find it unlikely. Not a certainty, but it works either way.
Of course that isn't to say that the more well known narrative is impossible, no not at all. It's just a reminder that we shouldn't assume things are the way they are told. Propaganda has been a thing since before there were governments to make it - because everyone wants to be seen in the best light possible.
But seriously, I doubt the Maesters every time. Because if an organization that is supposedly the "center of knowledge" was around, with living breathing, mating dragons? And they couldn't figure out if dragons had a gender or not? When they were readily available and tamed and all they had to do was look? How can I trust anything they say? And that isn't their only flaw either. They contradict themselves all the time and don't know as much as they pretend to. Hell, they don't even believe their own writings as shown by their disbelief in magic, white walkers, giants, and other things we know to be true. If they know their work is so full of flaws that they don't trust their own selves as a source? Anything not actively shown is suspect. Anything. So I consider what is more likely, unless I have seen it actively happening.
Hell, this is a bit far even, (and admittedly useless in a practical sense, because at that point you can use nothing, I know) but considering how much GRRM likes to fuck with us on things being "not true" later? I wouldn't be surprised if some of what we're reading as "actively happening" isn't true either! Remember, we're reading the events as written by someone else... how much did they get wrong? That'd be the ultimate joke. Most authors wouldn't go that far, but GRRM is one of the few I could see doing it. The point is, the best we can trust is what is actively described. This author has over and over shown that "known history" is wrong. So reasonable ideas? Are certainly possible - so long as they don't require huge stretches of the imagination.
In the end, I see Aenar "the Exile" as no different than Robert's Rebellion. "Everyone knows" that it was caused because Rhaegar "stole" Lyanna. Well, bullshit. It's just another time that "everyone" was wrong. Just like when "everyone" just "knew" the world was flat, or that the sun rotated around the earth. There's plenty of books written by very smart people that say so - but they're still wrong. Is Aenar an actual Exile, or is he a person who moved willingly? We don't know. But either way? It doesn't make Dragonstone a "Holy Site" to the Valyrian religion. Just special to Targs, which was my whole point. Targs were nobodies in the Dragonlord community. Still high in the Valyrian community, because they were dragonlords rather than normal Valyrians... but that's like being the worst player on the winning team in a tournament. You might never have even played, just sat on the sidelines.
Which is why I say that just because the Targs chose Dragonstone, doesn't make it special to Valyria. Seems more like whether they left willingly or not, they just found the place that was most similar to home. They were used to living in volcanic land, knew how to leverage volcanoes to their advantage, and dragons obviously thrive on them... so they chose what they could, simple as that. To me, considering Dragonstone a Holy Site because it has a Volcano, is like thinking that because Judeo-Christian religions think Mt. Sinai is special due to Moses talking to god there, means they think any mountains that Jewish people lived near must be equally special. It doesn't make sense if you know anything about the religion. It might make sense to an outsider who doesn't know why Mt. Sinai is special for them - but to anyone who knows? It's laughable.
Just because a person or group thinks X location is special, doesn't mean that they think every location of that same type is special. They can but typically that isn't the case with religions. They tend to only care about specific places, not every formation similar. They usually have stories of why this mountain is special, not every mountain. The fourteen fires weren't the only volcanoes in the world, and if Dragonstone was so special to Valyria, why would they let the lowest of the Dragonlords have it, exile or no? Why was it a Targaryen outpost and not some other, more important Dragonlord family, or a general Dragonlord site that was for everyone to use if they went on a Holy Pilgrimage or something? Particularly since travel for the Dragonlords wasn't difficult?
To me the very fact that it belonged to Targaryens, helps prove that it was considered insignificant to the religion as a whole.
Oh, and to answer your question? A person who chooses to leave isn't an exile. Self-imposed exile is a term... but it isn't "real". You're not an exile if you're allowed to return. It's just a way emo bastards make themselves seem more pitiful because they're emo, and that's what emo people do. If Aenar is in self-imposed exile? Then his title is "Aenar the Whiny Bitch".
