|
|
Post by lunasmeow on Oct 13, 2019 0:39:20 GMT
I can confirm that there isn't one currently. I've added up all my positive modifiers and the negative ones - and the numbers add up to my current score that I should have only if that isn't being negated. So there needs to be an addition, or else an "only" modifier placed on it somehow, that allows the negatives to only occur if the character doesn't have the same trait. Which is probably easier, because if you try to negate it otherwise you'll have to worry about going overboard. Do just a +10 and it won't negate the vassal -5, do a +15 and non-vassal relatives get an unfair boost. I've got a "same dynasty" +10 bonus, which would negate the first, but not the vassal issue. So I'm still getting an extra -5 from having the same bloodline as her, just because she's a vassal. And honestly, that same dynasty bonus isn't coming from the bloodline - it's a normal family bonus, because blind Aemon at the wall has the bonus with me, without him being of Aerys' blood. Which means it's not really negating anything, as I should have the +10 anyway. Ok to provide a lore explanation and a modding explanation of why I don’t think this is a pressing issue, I’ll consider fixing it but not overly fussed. Lore explanation: assuming someone explains to her quite how utterly insane and dangerous Aerys was (as Barristan is doing), Danaerys will know the stories of what he did and also know how insane her brother was. In turn Jon will also know just how awful the Mad King was. If they uncover Jon’s heritage the other will know precisely how mad their bloodline can and does get. Remember how angry Jahaerys got when one of his daughters mentioned Margor? Maegor was a lot more sane than Aerys. If Jon and Danaerys ever meet and know Jon’s heritage each of them will believe that they themselves are sane but would have very strong grounds for wondering if the other had the family madness which would foster a certain degree of distrust, if I were Jon and Dany started being slightly erratic (sorry to remind everyone of Source 8) but I would immediately start thinking “oh Christ she’s taking after grandad, better go stab her” and the same would be true of Danaerys with Jon. The Mad King pierced the Targaryen mystique and showed that they could become murderously and violently insane and anyone sensible would be worried about trusting them again, even other targs. Modding explanation: yeah so you can’t make a bloodline have a trait bonus with specifically another bloodline, so as you mention it’d have to be a trait via a trait gain system, I’m not particularly partial to this as it’s fiddly, rather inelegant, and clutters up the trait bar with either an invisible trait or a trait that is called “spawn of the mad king” or something that just seems a bit silly to have as a trait tbh. I do however, have a solution which is to add a 30+ lunatic opinion to the bloodline as (I would argue) a sane targ would be uneasy around someone form the Mad King’s line but if they were also insane they’d probably be ok with it so if the coin flip makes your targ mad you’d not get what all the fuss over Aerys was Modding explanation makes sense, but the lore one not really... Even if you have madness in your family, that doesn't mean you're immediately going to suspect every other member of the family. You'll suspect ones who show odd tendencies, but not just every relation you have. That's insanity in and of itself. Look at real families with people who are insane and you'll see this quite easily. I mean, by this logic, Dany has a negative modifier to her own children. So yeah, not sensible at all. Particularly for her personality. Also, I happen to be both her friend and lover, as well as husband so the modifier isn't hurting me effectively, as I have way too many positive ones to balance it out, it just seemed worth pointing out because I didn't always have those modifiers. If it's just a hardware limitation that's just what it is... but that's a pretty unrealistic lore excuse that is unnecessary when the real answer is just "modding limits". You don't need to bend over backwards mate. The modding limits explained enough. Thanks for trying though. What might make sense though, is for those of the Mad King's bloodline to get extra negativity if they have the lunatic or possessed traits? Or even just "fire obsessed". Because they could be seen as "more dangerous" than "normal" lunatics. Maybe tie the negative modifier to having the bloodline and one of those two traits? Because in the series, no one except Robert seemed to give a damn about Aerys' bloodline in that sense anyway. No one argues against Dany "because she's the Mad King's child" except for those with a personal grudge against her or her family, scraping for excuses. Not until (in the show) when she starts actually going crazy anyway. It's rather out of character really, for people to have this opinion of her without her actually being insane. This idea of "your family member was insane so you will be too" isn't even true in ASOIAF, as most Targs weren't mad at all. So you never really see this supposed negative modifier. Uneducated commoners might - but not educated nobility. And they're the ones your rep mostly affects, unless you make it a "revolt risk" modifier. Eh, just a suggestion - I can use console stuff to negate any issues I run into, but there ya go. |
|
|
|
Post by Elotyr on Oct 13, 2019 1:09:38 GMT
Ok to provide a lore explanation and a modding explanation of why I don’t think this is a pressing issue, I’ll consider fixing it but not overly fussed. Lore explanation: assuming someone explains to her quite how utterly insane and dangerous Aerys was (as Barristan is doing), Danaerys will know the stories of what he did and also know how insane her brother was. In turn Jon will also know just how awful the Mad King was. If they uncover Jon’s heritage the other will know precisely how mad their bloodline can and does get. Remember how angry Jahaerys got when one of his daughters mentioned Margor? Maegor was a lot more sane than Aerys. If Jon and Danaerys ever meet and know Jon’s heritage each of them will believe that they themselves are sane but would have very strong grounds for wondering if the other had the family madness which would foster a certain degree of distrust, if I were Jon and Dany started being slightly erratic (sorry to remind everyone of Source 8) but I would immediately start thinking “oh Christ she’s taking after grandad, better go stab her” and the same would be true of Danaerys with Jon. The Mad King pierced the Targaryen mystique and showed that they could become murderously and violently insane and anyone sensible would be worried about trusting them again, even other targs. Modding explanation: yeah so you can’t make a bloodline have a trait bonus with specifically another bloodline, so as you mention it’d have to be a trait via a trait gain system, I’m not particularly partial to this as it’s fiddly, rather inelegant, and clutters up the trait bar with either an invisible trait or a trait that is called “spawn of the mad king” or something that just seems a bit silly to have as a trait tbh. I do however, have a solution which is to add a 30+ lunatic opinion to the bloodline as (I would argue) a sane targ would be uneasy around someone form the Mad King’s line but if they were also insane they’d probably be ok with it so if the coin flip makes your targ mad you’d not get what all the fuss over Aerys was Modding explanation makes sense, but the lore one not really... Even if you have madness in your family, that doesn't mean you're immediately going to suspect every other member of the family. You'll suspect ones who show odd tendencies, but not just every relation you have. That's insanity in and of itself. Look at real families with people who are insane and you'll see this quite easily. I mean, by this logic, Dany has a negative modifier to her own children. So yeah, not sensible at all. Particularly for her personality. Also, I happen to be both her friend and lover, as well as husband so the modifier isn't hurting me effectively, as I have way too many positive ones to balance it out, it just seemed worth pointing out because I didn't always have those modifiers. If it's just a hardware limitation that's just what it is... but that's a pretty unrealistic lore excuse that is unnecessary when the real answer is just "modding limits". You don't need to bend over backwards mate. The modding limits explained enough. Thanks for trying though. What might make sense though, is for those of the Mad King's bloodline to get extra negativity if they have the lunatic or possessed traits? Or even just "fire obsessed". Because they could be seen as "more dangerous" than "normal" lunatics. Maybe tie the negative modifier to having the bloodline and one of those two traits? Because in the series, no one except Robert seemed to give a damn about Aerys' bloodline in that sense anyway. No one argues against Dany "because she's the Mad King's child" except for those with a personal grudge against her or her family, scraping for excuses. Not until (in the show) when she starts actually going crazy anyway. It's rather out of character really, for people to have this opinion of her without her actually being insane. This idea of "your family member was insane so you will be too" isn't even true in ASOIAF, as most Targs weren't mad at all. So you never really see this supposed negative modifier. Eh, just a suggestion - I can use console stuff to negate any issues I run into, but there ya go. Yeah there isn't even i saying in Westeros about half of the Targaryens being goddam mad... Oh wait. I think the lore explanation is fair, even to Dany own children actually, The Mad King was not a "Oh, the guy was a bad king..." The dude make more than half of his country rebel against him and was the cause of a downfall of a 300 years dynasty, yeah there were some crazys before, but nothing like that. In Dany and her children/descents could be just their mind thinking "Oh shit, what if the blood of Aerys is strong in this one?!" So yeah, i personally like it. |
|
|
|
Post by hercules23 on Oct 13, 2019 5:04:46 GMT
Can you give members of house fireball a bloodline for Quentyn fireball? I think it makes sense if you decided to have it as a unique house.
|
|
|
|
Post by rufff1 on Oct 13, 2019 8:02:39 GMT
Can you give members of house fireball a bloodline for Quentyn fireball? I think it makes sense if you decided to have it as a unique house. Good call |
|
Angelo
Member
Gamering gamering gamering
Posts: 69
|
Post by Angelo on Oct 13, 2019 16:34:32 GMT
Again is the Young Dragon bloodline working for anyone else in the conquest of dorne start.
For me it isn't working at all I don't even know if its meant too.
|
|
|
|
Post by rufff1 on Oct 13, 2019 17:21:16 GMT
Again is the Young Dragon bloodline working for anyone else in the conquest of dorne start. For me it isn't working at all I don't even know if its meant too. I’ll check it  |
|
|
|
Post by thefool on Oct 13, 2019 18:31:29 GMT
I was wondering if it wasn't too much trouble...Would it be plausible to add bloodline effects (example: Bloodline_effect_Strong = 1) to start dates like Century of Blood, Andal Invasion (so on and so forth. It would be a daunting task to add more bloodlines to those start dates, but in its stead I think for existing bloodlines to have the mechanics of certain bloodlines from the More Bloodlines Mod. An example would be 'Durrandon likely to be Strong' 'Stark likely to get direwolf/just'. Just wanted to throw that out there.
|
|
|
|
Post by rufff1 on Oct 13, 2019 18:32:42 GMT
I was wondering if it wasn't too much trouble...Would it be plausible to add bloodline effects (example: Bloodline_effect_Strong = 1) to start dates like Century of Blood, Andal Invasion (so on and so forth. It would be a daunting task to add more bloodlines to those start dates, but in its stead I think for existing bloodlines to have the mechanics of certain bloodlines from the More Bloodlines Mod. An example would be 'Durrandon likely to be Strong' 'Stark likely to get direwolf/just'. Just wanted to throw that out there. It’s on the to do list, but not as an imminent thing |
|
|
|
Post by thefool on Oct 13, 2019 18:38:00 GMT
I was wondering if it wasn't too much trouble...Would it be plausible to add bloodline effects (example: Bloodline_effect_Strong = 1) to start dates like Century of Blood, Andal Invasion (so on and so forth. It would be a daunting task to add more bloodlines to those start dates, but in its stead I think for existing bloodlines to have the mechanics of certain bloodlines from the More Bloodlines Mod. An example would be 'Durrandon likely to be Strong' 'Stark likely to get direwolf/just'. Just wanted to throw that out there. It’s on the to do list, but not as an imminent thing Ah, alright. Cool. |
|
|
|
Post by House Hawk on Oct 13, 2019 21:03:22 GMT
I really like your map redesign so I was wondering if it was possible to use the files from this mod to just have that map? (If so which files?)
|
|
|
|
Post by rufff1 on Oct 13, 2019 21:09:53 GMT
I really like your map redesign so I was wondering if it was possible to use the files from this mod to just have that map? (If so which files?) Can't guarantee that it would be stable but I think the map folder, the history/provinces folder, the localisation folder and the landed title folder should be fine, you'll probably have issues with the kingsroad though |
|
br0nn
New Member
Posts: 6
|
Post by br0nn on Oct 14, 2019 21:28:10 GMT
Is this mod compatible with official submods?
|
|
|
|
Post by lunasmeow on Oct 18, 2019 6:54:09 GMT
Modding explanation makes sense, but the lore one not really... Even if you have madness in your family, that doesn't mean you're immediately going to suspect every other member of the family. You'll suspect ones who show odd tendencies, but not just every relation you have. That's insanity in and of itself. Look at real families with people who are insane and you'll see this quite easily. I mean, by this logic, Dany has a negative modifier to her own children. So yeah, not sensible at all. Particularly for her personality. Also, I happen to be both her friend and lover, as well as husband so the modifier isn't hurting me effectively, as I have way too many positive ones to balance it out, it just seemed worth pointing out because I didn't always have those modifiers. If it's just a hardware limitation that's just what it is... but that's a pretty unrealistic lore excuse that is unnecessary when the real answer is just "modding limits". You don't need to bend over backwards mate. The modding limits explained enough. Thanks for trying though. What might make sense though, is for those of the Mad King's bloodline to get extra negativity if they have the lunatic or possessed traits? Or even just "fire obsessed". Because they could be seen as "more dangerous" than "normal" lunatics. Maybe tie the negative modifier to having the bloodline and one of those two traits? Because in the series, no one except Robert seemed to give a damn about Aerys' bloodline in that sense anyway. No one argues against Dany "because she's the Mad King's child" except for those with a personal grudge against her or her family, scraping for excuses. Not until (in the show) when she starts actually going crazy anyway. It's rather out of character really, for people to have this opinion of her without her actually being insane. This idea of "your family member was insane so you will be too" isn't even true in ASOIAF, as most Targs weren't mad at all. So you never really see this supposed negative modifier. Eh, just a suggestion - I can use console stuff to negate any issues I run into, but there ya go. Yeah there isn't even i saying in Westeros about half of the Targaryens being goddam mad... Oh wait. I think the lore explanation is fair, even to Dany own children actually, The Mad King was not a "Oh, the guy was a bad king..." The dude make more than half of his country rebel against him and was the cause of a downfall of a 300 years dynasty, yeah there were some crazys before, but nothing like that. In Dany and her children/descents could be just their mind thinking "Oh shit, what if the blood of Aerys is strong in this one?!" So yeah, i personally like it. Sigh.... this is what happens when people try to be witty and make smart alec remarks when they aren't as smart as they think they are... Particularly when they jump into someone else's conversation and go "Oh wait..." thinking they just dropped a bomb on things when they only screwed their own argument, instead of just being polite. You really need to be more secure in your position before trying to show your ass and attempt to play people online... Because you'll find out that some people know how to bite back, and they would have just been kind had you been polite. Here's why your "logic" is sheer foolishness. YES of course there's a saying - but "Words are Wind" is also a saying, and for damn good reason. Their actions do not reflect the saying. That's the point. Whereas in the mod, their actions do, because having a negative modifier, causes them to actually act differently. Also, Dany having a negative modifier to her own children making sense? Have you even seen her personality? Have you ever even met anyone who has a person with madness in their family? That's not how it works. It is other people who have the issue and look at them with suspicion, typically commoners, not educated people who know better. Regardless, you make very weak points. Especially when in canon there are still Targ loyalists. This, despite the saying about the gods flipping a coin. If you actually look at which Targs suffered the madness, (there's a rather helpful list on the wiki) it was only around five or six, which is crazy low considering how many Targs existed. Which is the entire reason why they only get suspected once they show a hint of actually being affected by it. Because there were far more Targs who showed no issues at all. This is why I suggested making it a revolt risk rather than a reputation risk because commoners, having low opinion of you, doesn't matter in the mod, because they have no armies, no money, no nothing. Only revolt risk actually makes the commoners do anything, and the nobility, has been shown over and over again, to not really care about the risk. See, the nobility didn't actually give a damn that Aerys was mad, they cared that he was being tyrannical. They cared that a Lord Paramount had his daughter (supposedly) stolen, then was killed and so was his son. Nobles are typically insulated against tyranny, but finally, they weren't. That's what they cared about, not madness. Which is why they immediately put someone with Targ blood back on the throne. Because they figured Robert wouldn't be a tyrant. At least not to other nobility. You can be a tyrant to the commoners all day long. And nobles know that tyranny doesn't run in the blood. Unlike the Targ madness. So it still doesn't make sense from a Lore perspective, which is why they kept supporting Targs, up until Aerys and Rhaegar finally went too far, (prior to the whole Lyanna thing, they were having meetings talking about replacing Aerys with Rhaegar because Aerys' madness was becoming apparent, they only revolted once Rhaegar also started fucking up, - in their view - by "stealing" and "raping" Lyanna. If they'd known it was all consensual... no rebellion. At least not by the entire realm. Maybe just the North and Stormlands, if that.) and even then they let Robert have the throne, specifically because he has Targ blood! So they still aren't worried about Targ madness! Unless you think that they were just sooooo worried about that Targ blood that they thought the closest living relative would solve the issue? Seriously, literally every aspect of the story disproves you. Hell, Robert actually very likely has the madness given his personality. "Fear and Blood" being what keeps the country together? Awful close to "Fire and Blood" the very words of the House. His insanity against any "dragonspawn" and so on? Yeah, he's probably got a bit of that rare Targ madness showing. Furthermore, to counter your point about people being suspicious of each other if they all share the bloodline? When people do actually have negative modifiers against people for their bloodline, those with that same bloodline tend to stick together seeing it as "them against the world" because everyone else is treating them like shit for something they can't help. It's no different than any other form of discrimination - people resent it, and they form tribes because of it. Particularly when the people being mistreated are few in number, and so need each other. So again, no, people of the same bloodline disliking each other because of the bloodline rather than for some other reason, still doesn't make any damn sense. Except in the case of one or more of them actually showing that they are affected by that bloodline in the negative way. You can't disprove a point by picking at a single bit of the whole wildly out of context. That's not how logic works. |
|
|
|
Post by lunasmeow on Oct 18, 2019 7:26:09 GMT
In other news, @ruff1, I had a thought. There are no bloodlines for the Golden Empire of Yi-Ti. I mean, we have them in-game, (long dead, but existing) and they are supposedly direct descendants of the Lion of Night and the Maiden Made of Light - which is why, I assume, they were supposedly able to live for a thousand years or more in multiple cases - but there is no bloodline for them. Hell, even the freaking Bloodstone Emperor doesn't have a bloodline, and he is the one who supposedly caused the Long Night.
You'd think that the Golden Empire had a major health bonus that gave such long life, and that the Bloodstone Emperor had another bloodline added from the Old Ones that he worshiped. Especially since Starry Wisdom is a religion available...
Not sure why they were skipped over by the main mod, would you consider adding stuff for them?
|
|
|
|
Post by rufff1 on Oct 18, 2019 8:22:45 GMT
In other news, @ruff1, I had a thought. There are no bloodlines for the Golden Empire of Yi-Ti. I mean, we have them in-game, (long dead, but existing) and they are supposedly direct descendants of the Lion of Night and the Maiden Made of Light - which is why, I assume, they were supposedly able to live for a thousand years or more in multiple cases - but there is no bloodline for them. Hell, even the freaking Bloodstone Emperor doesn't have a bloodline, and he is the one who supposedly caused the Long Night.You'd think that the Golden Empire had a major health bonus that gave such long life, and that the Bloodstone Emperor had another bloodline added from the Old Ones that he worshiped. Especially since Starry Wisdom is a religion available... Not sure why they were skipped over by the main mod, would you consider adding stuff for them? there are Yi Ti bloodlines |
|
