Post by newbieone on Mar 6, 2018 13:51:02 GMT
Apologies if this has been discussed before; I've just done the search and couldn't find anything.
TL;DR: Agnatic-Cognatic Primo for anybody below the Martells, especially the Yronwoods; therefore default succession in Dorne, from which the Cognatic Martells as Princes would be an exception (possibly the sole exception).
Long story short, full-on cognatic succession (equal primo) is a typical Dorne trademark thing, but as far as I can tell that's because it applies to the ruling house, not the lords below.
That difference comes from the Martells follow Nymeria's Rhoynar family tradition, so they stand apart from the Dayne's, Ullers, Qorgyles, Wyls and the lost of them, and especially the Yronwoods, who are mostly First Men and sometimes Andals in origin without too much Rhoynar influence, just enough to get them off of Agnatic Primo (which I guess could be forbidden for Dornish cultures), but specifically not to the point of putting older daughters before younger sons.
I'm especially focusing on the Yronwoods here, the former First-Men High Kings of Dorne, who have recently suggested that Arianne should be displaced by her younger brothers in the succession of the royal house. I think this is pretty conclusive about the Yronwoods following Agnatic-Cognatic succession (supposing pure agnatic doesn't exist in Dorne), and the Yronwoods are important enough to care.
Still, this could be important when playing as anyone small in Dorne (however less relevant it could feel from a Martell perspective).
Where difficulties arise because the practice of the relevant house seems inconsistent or the exact degree of male preference is difficult to nail down, I'd still suggest Agnatic-Cognatic primo, or alternatively Gavelkind (if the lands tend to end up broken up) or Elective (where the family head will often be the sole elector, which would coincide with who called the shots in the books). This may be non-obvious, but a family's varying preference for either men or women could be reduced to simply electing the person of the next lord as opposed to the 'electing' the principle of succession. It's like a Great Council: you prefer the relevant heir, so you favour the principle that favours the heir. Or you have your own ideas of what succession should look like, so you pick whomever your ideas of succession indicate should be the next ruler. This is all well represented under elective (because other power wielders are likewise free and your vote doesn't count for more than theirs does, whatever is the different principle that guides each of you's choice).
Obviously this is not to say AI-controlled lords in Dorne shouldn't e.g. have a chance of changing their succession law to full-on Cognatic Primo eventually, e.g. the same way CK2 characters change their culture or religion to butter up the liege.
TL;DR: Agnatic-Cognatic Primo for anybody below the Martells, especially the Yronwoods; therefore default succession in Dorne, from which the Cognatic Martells as Princes would be an exception (possibly the sole exception).
Long story short, full-on cognatic succession (equal primo) is a typical Dorne trademark thing, but as far as I can tell that's because it applies to the ruling house, not the lords below.
That difference comes from the Martells follow Nymeria's Rhoynar family tradition, so they stand apart from the Dayne's, Ullers, Qorgyles, Wyls and the lost of them, and especially the Yronwoods, who are mostly First Men and sometimes Andals in origin without too much Rhoynar influence, just enough to get them off of Agnatic Primo (which I guess could be forbidden for Dornish cultures), but specifically not to the point of putting older daughters before younger sons.
I'm especially focusing on the Yronwoods here, the former First-Men High Kings of Dorne, who have recently suggested that Arianne should be displaced by her younger brothers in the succession of the royal house. I think this is pretty conclusive about the Yronwoods following Agnatic-Cognatic succession (supposing pure agnatic doesn't exist in Dorne), and the Yronwoods are important enough to care.
Still, this could be important when playing as anyone small in Dorne (however less relevant it could feel from a Martell perspective).
Where difficulties arise because the practice of the relevant house seems inconsistent or the exact degree of male preference is difficult to nail down, I'd still suggest Agnatic-Cognatic primo, or alternatively Gavelkind (if the lands tend to end up broken up) or Elective (where the family head will often be the sole elector, which would coincide with who called the shots in the books). This may be non-obvious, but a family's varying preference for either men or women could be reduced to simply electing the person of the next lord as opposed to the 'electing' the principle of succession. It's like a Great Council: you prefer the relevant heir, so you favour the principle that favours the heir. Or you have your own ideas of what succession should look like, so you pick whomever your ideas of succession indicate should be the next ruler. This is all well represented under elective (because other power wielders are likewise free and your vote doesn't count for more than theirs does, whatever is the different principle that guides each of you's choice).
Obviously this is not to say AI-controlled lords in Dorne shouldn't e.g. have a chance of changing their succession law to full-on Cognatic Primo eventually, e.g. the same way CK2 characters change their culture or religion to butter up the liege.
