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Post by Salty_Balls on Jun 25, 2019 17:16:28 GMT
Why not adopt the vannila's monastic society for the warrior's sons order? Seems it would fit well thematically.
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Post by ishabad on Jun 26, 2019 15:54:36 GMT
Seconded
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Post by Karl on Jun 26, 2019 15:57:37 GMT
Why not adopt the vannila's monastic society for the warrior's sons order? Seems it would fit well thematically.
The Warrior's Sons are an order of knights who serve as an "army" for the Faith (much like holy orders), while the monastic orders are religious communities dedicated to religious worship and devotion. I don't see many parallells, to be honest. |
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Post by soulbourne on Jun 26, 2019 17:07:11 GMT
Most holy orders were classified as monastic orders, using the same structures oaths and beliefs. That's why in vanilla taking monk oaths often causes you to join a knightly order-rather than becoming a habbit wearing monk you decide to bring glory to your family by becoming an armor wearing monk. They also possess numerous lay members who are not full members but more non-dedicated volunteers who loosely follow the ideals presented by the order and often do a number of minor tasks and provide financial support without the weights and responsibility of being a proper oathsworn monk.
At least if the warriors sons are in fact an army of holy warriors of the faithful. Could be they're a bunch of fanatics with no actual oaths or restrictions who just go around stabbing anyone the pope tells them too, which is definitely different.
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Post by Karl on Jun 27, 2019 15:35:15 GMT
Most holy orders were classified as monastic orders, using the same structures oaths and beliefs. That's why in vanilla taking monk oaths often causes you to join a knightly order-rather than becoming a habbit wearing monk you decide to bring glory to your family by becoming an armor wearing monk. They also possess numerous lay members who are not full members but more non-dedicated volunteers who loosely follow the ideals presented by the order and often do a number of minor tasks and provide financial support without the weights and responsibility of being a proper oathsworn monk. At least if the warriors sons are in fact an army of holy warriors of the faithful. Could be they're a bunch of fanatics with no actual oaths or restrictions who just go around stabbing anyone the pope tells them too, which is definitely different. I'm aware of all of the above. When I said "monastic societies" I was referring specifically to them as they are in vanilla, since that was the topic of discussion. When player characters join a vanilla monastic society there they are obviously lay members, however, when you say: "That's why in vanilla taking monk oaths often causes you to join a knightly order-rather than becoming a habbit wearing monk you decide to bring glory to your family by becoming an armor wearing monk." ...I kinda wonder what on Earth you are referring to? The monastic societies in vanilla are not knightly orders at all. On top of that, their powers are all related to one's status as basically a lay ("third order") member of the society. There is no martial aspect at all. The Warrior's Sons, however, have no such aspects and are a religious martial society with mandatory vows of celibacy and poverty. I don't see any connection between them and the vanilla monastic societies at all besides both having a religious nature. |
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Post by soulbourne on Jun 28, 2019 16:22:18 GMT
In sons of abraham there was an option to make your courtiers take the vows and become monks, this have a decent chance for highborn characters, especially with good martial, to go and join one of the holy orders rather than remain in court or join the court of a bishop. This remains true even post-monks and mystics. Also, knightly orders maintained large amounts of lay membership RL was well, who did numerous tasks in support of the knights. In vanilla when they hold land all of their fuedal levies, or most anyways, would be classified as lay members of the order, officially part of it but not required to take all the extra oaths. For a RL example, the last remaining holy order of knights, the Knights of Malta, descendants of the Knights Hospitlers, maintain most of their membership as third class members who do not take oaths or vows nor even require noble lineage to be proven like the first two: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_Military_Order_of_Malta#Membership |
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Post by Salty_Balls on Jun 29, 2019 4:14:28 GMT
Most holy orders were classified as monastic orders, using the same structures oaths and beliefs. That's why in vanilla taking monk oaths often causes you to join a knightly order-rather than becoming a habbit wearing monk you decide to bring glory to your family by becoming an armor wearing monk. They also possess numerous lay members who are not full members but more non-dedicated volunteers who loosely follow the ideals presented by the order and often do a number of minor tasks and provide financial support without the weights and responsibility of being a proper oathsworn monk. At least if the warriors sons are in fact an army of holy warriors of the faithful. Could be they're a bunch of fanatics with no actual oaths or restrictions who just go around stabbing anyone the pope tells them too, which is definitely different. As it was mentioned before many knightly orders would essentially just be regular monk orders (with all the generic monk duties and perks) but which also had a more militaristic focus (e.g. knights Templar), so it can be said that we already have a militaristic representation of the warrior's sons in game (in the form of the merc company) but are lacking its more civil part, which can be represented through the said vanilla society.
What would also be cool is if we could modify the vanilla society to grant special discounts to high tier members in regards to hiring the poor fellows or the warrior's sons.
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Post by soulbourne on Jun 30, 2019 15:34:49 GMT
The issue with hiring them is they're a vassal mercenary company to the high septon-so only he can hire them. from what I remember this was so he could call upon them to fight lords of westeros who otherwise wouldn't be threatened by a holy order even under the popes declaration.
That said, having one of the powers being to call the warrior sons as an ally in war could work, as they can then raise their troops and move to hep.
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