Post by jake on Jun 9, 2019 0:26:22 GMT
Here is another wild idea for the next major update of the mod:
How about changing the "temple" holding type into a "manor" holdings and changing the existing "temple" holdings into Wonders and just saving the current "temple" holdings into very rare special cases when they are needed for raiding purposes or when they are actual settlements according to lore.
Reasoning for this is that there really should be three separate settlement types and that the current temple-holdings are ridiculously fast to construct into large levy-generators with comparatively high incomes thanks for the spamming of temple+Fields/demesne, which both generate levy multipliers and are straight buildable unlike the other holding-type main buildings.
Also this would circumvent the current map problem of ridiculously many heavily fortified keeps, castles and fortresses everywhere, unlike in the lore.
Instead I would propose the following modifications:
- Religious structures (Septry, Warlocks, Sorcerers, Shadowbinders, Bearded Priests) are all changed into organizations like the Citadel or Warrior lodges when they need a practical hierarchy or left into unlanded core-religions when not.
- Religious buildings like the Great Sept of Baelor should be wonders instead of holdings as they shouldn't provide levies and being able to improve them makes very little sense. This is even more true with the northern weirwood-groves.
- Temple holdings -> Manor holdings.
- Remaining temple-holdings as very rare when religions actually have have troop-generating holdings.
- Religious titles should take precedence over other titles, including lordly titles when religious guys have holdings as they usually are their main titles and this will allow religions and religious heads to own land and rule from castles with their correct title.
- Income for religious heads or other similar characters changed to come from very well paying minor titles or even straight from character traits.
- Castle holdings:
+ Should usually be titled "Lord", as they represent the most minor lordlings, when not owned by the actual lords or Castellan if not of lordly rank.
+ Should generate very little income, as they are extremely expensive to maintain (like we know from Harrenhall that actually has quite decent lands).
+ Should have heavy fortification levels from the main building (keep) and from additional fortifications that take long time to construct.
+ They should have large number of separate fortifications that some have single level (like the earth-fortifications motte and rampart) and others can be upgraded to equal keep level (the level of the holding) that all give small increases to the fortification levels and individually won't take that long to construct, but combined would give gradual increases for a long time with more affordable costs.
+ Fortifications should include: motte, rampart, ringworks, moat, enceinte, baileys, curtain walls, battlements, crenellations, hoardings, machicolations, arrowslits, donjons, towers, albarrana towers, bastions, gate house, barbican, portcullis, draw bridge (and ditch), sally ports and artillery [(od I love the before gunpowder late-medieval castles that were practically unconquerable before they run out of food).
+ Should provide the heaviest troops in levies.
+ Main building should provide some Heavy Infantry, Archers and Light Cavalry and trough buildings Pikemen, Archers Heavy Infantry and Light Cavalry and perhaps even a building to create some Horse Archers (mounted crossbowmen, might also be better to have as a retinue-only unit for rarity)
+ Heavy Cavalry should only be available trough household guard or by hiring (hedge) knights and perhaps in retinues, as they are kinda OP and shouldn't be very common for their high upkeep costs (mails and quality weapons are quite expensive to let rust after all).
- Manor holdings:
+ Could have the title of "Captal", "Baron", "Baronet", "Laird", "Bailiff", "Freeholder" or "Lord of the Manor"/"Mesne Lord" (when lordly rank) and be preceded by knightly title when held by knight that is not a proper lord.
+ Should generate good initial income (from main building) and moderate income from building upgrades. They should be the main way to generate income for a lord trough vassals and from own fief.
+ Should have none initial fortification and have very little options to build them trough buildings, maybe never reaching over 1 or 2.
+ Should be the main source of levies, bringing in most of the troops.
+ Main building and fields should provide much Light Infantry and trough other buildings much Pikemen, Archers and some Light Cavalry and Heavy Infantry.
- City holdings:
+ Probably should have title of "Bailiff", "Alderman", "Mayor" or "Lord Mayor" (if lordly rank) when underlings. Not really sure about the title, as Westeros-cities seem to be ruled by lords in the lore.
+ Should generate best income from all of the holding types in every way, being the actual cash cows of the realm.
+ Should have no initial fortification (no walls) and be able to have moderate fortification level from building walls and defenses (the medieval cities besides Carcassonne were far from unconquerable with their long and low walls, but some times had strong citadels [or castles]).
+ Should generate moderate levies with mostly Light Infantry.
+ Main building should create (comparatively) ridiculously high amounts of Light Infantry and have (Town Guard/City Guard) building to create Archers, (Town Watch/City Watch) building for Pikemen.
+ Cities should generate mainly no riders, as cities rarely bother with their own stables for the cost of upkeeping horses if they don't patrol the roads, which is the lords responsibility, won't offer merit in defending the walls and their traders are usually notoriously reluctant to part with their horses.
- Forts might also be made upgradeable (have buildings) to be better able to protect the weakly fortified manors, being faster to build and cheaper to build and upkeep than proper castles.
- Trade posts should be buildable by lords as fair markets when the county sits in a major roads or as ports when in coasts to represent one of their major income revenues and to highlight the fact how lords living along a major trade routes tended to be wealthier than periphery lords or marcher lords (who tended to have this offset by the king by granting them huge domains so they could afford the troops to protect the realm).
Yeah sorry for asking such a major overhaul, but it's kinda hard to not suggest this when you imagine how much it could improve the mechanisms...
Please don't be offended by my humble suggestions and if you disagree about something, well you are doing the work so I guess it's your decision.
How about changing the "temple" holding type into a "manor" holdings and changing the existing "temple" holdings into Wonders and just saving the current "temple" holdings into very rare special cases when they are needed for raiding purposes or when they are actual settlements according to lore.
Reasoning for this is that there really should be three separate settlement types and that the current temple-holdings are ridiculously fast to construct into large levy-generators with comparatively high incomes thanks for the spamming of temple+Fields/demesne, which both generate levy multipliers and are straight buildable unlike the other holding-type main buildings.
Also this would circumvent the current map problem of ridiculously many heavily fortified keeps, castles and fortresses everywhere, unlike in the lore.
Instead I would propose the following modifications:
- Religious structures (Septry, Warlocks, Sorcerers, Shadowbinders, Bearded Priests) are all changed into organizations like the Citadel or Warrior lodges when they need a practical hierarchy or left into unlanded core-religions when not.
- Religious buildings like the Great Sept of Baelor should be wonders instead of holdings as they shouldn't provide levies and being able to improve them makes very little sense. This is even more true with the northern weirwood-groves.
- Temple holdings -> Manor holdings.
- Remaining temple-holdings as very rare when religions actually have have troop-generating holdings.
- Religious titles should take precedence over other titles, including lordly titles when religious guys have holdings as they usually are their main titles and this will allow religions and religious heads to own land and rule from castles with their correct title.
- Income for religious heads or other similar characters changed to come from very well paying minor titles or even straight from character traits.
- Castle holdings:
+ Should usually be titled "Lord", as they represent the most minor lordlings, when not owned by the actual lords or Castellan if not of lordly rank.
+ Should generate very little income, as they are extremely expensive to maintain (like we know from Harrenhall that actually has quite decent lands).
+ Should have heavy fortification levels from the main building (keep) and from additional fortifications that take long time to construct.
+ They should have large number of separate fortifications that some have single level (like the earth-fortifications motte and rampart) and others can be upgraded to equal keep level (the level of the holding) that all give small increases to the fortification levels and individually won't take that long to construct, but combined would give gradual increases for a long time with more affordable costs.
+ Fortifications should include: motte, rampart, ringworks, moat, enceinte, baileys, curtain walls, battlements, crenellations, hoardings, machicolations, arrowslits, donjons, towers, albarrana towers, bastions, gate house, barbican, portcullis, draw bridge (and ditch), sally ports and artillery [(od I love the before gunpowder late-medieval castles that were practically unconquerable before they run out of food).
+ Should provide the heaviest troops in levies.
+ Main building should provide some Heavy Infantry, Archers and Light Cavalry and trough buildings Pikemen, Archers Heavy Infantry and Light Cavalry and perhaps even a building to create some Horse Archers (mounted crossbowmen, might also be better to have as a retinue-only unit for rarity)
+ Heavy Cavalry should only be available trough household guard or by hiring (hedge) knights and perhaps in retinues, as they are kinda OP and shouldn't be very common for their high upkeep costs (mails and quality weapons are quite expensive to let rust after all).
- Manor holdings:
+ Could have the title of "Captal", "Baron", "Baronet", "Laird", "Bailiff", "Freeholder" or "Lord of the Manor"/"Mesne Lord" (when lordly rank) and be preceded by knightly title when held by knight that is not a proper lord.
+ Should generate good initial income (from main building) and moderate income from building upgrades. They should be the main way to generate income for a lord trough vassals and from own fief.
+ Should have none initial fortification and have very little options to build them trough buildings, maybe never reaching over 1 or 2.
+ Should be the main source of levies, bringing in most of the troops.
+ Main building and fields should provide much Light Infantry and trough other buildings much Pikemen, Archers and some Light Cavalry and Heavy Infantry.
- City holdings:
+ Probably should have title of "Bailiff", "Alderman", "Mayor" or "Lord Mayor" (if lordly rank) when underlings. Not really sure about the title, as Westeros-cities seem to be ruled by lords in the lore.
+ Should generate best income from all of the holding types in every way, being the actual cash cows of the realm.
+ Should have no initial fortification (no walls) and be able to have moderate fortification level from building walls and defenses (the medieval cities besides Carcassonne were far from unconquerable with their long and low walls, but some times had strong citadels [or castles]).
+ Should generate moderate levies with mostly Light Infantry.
+ Main building should create (comparatively) ridiculously high amounts of Light Infantry and have (Town Guard/City Guard) building to create Archers, (Town Watch/City Watch) building for Pikemen.
+ Cities should generate mainly no riders, as cities rarely bother with their own stables for the cost of upkeeping horses if they don't patrol the roads, which is the lords responsibility, won't offer merit in defending the walls and their traders are usually notoriously reluctant to part with their horses.
- Forts might also be made upgradeable (have buildings) to be better able to protect the weakly fortified manors, being faster to build and cheaper to build and upkeep than proper castles.
- Trade posts should be buildable by lords as fair markets when the county sits in a major roads or as ports when in coasts to represent one of their major income revenues and to highlight the fact how lords living along a major trade routes tended to be wealthier than periphery lords or marcher lords (who tended to have this offset by the king by granting them huge domains so they could afford the troops to protect the realm).
Yeah sorry for asking such a major overhaul, but it's kinda hard to not suggest this when you imagine how much it could improve the mechanisms...
Please don't be offended by my humble suggestions and if you disagree about something, well you are doing the work so I guess it's your decision.
