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Post by turtleshroom on Apr 20, 2019 0:35:42 GMT
Good evening.
I propose a new Religious Feature to add to your Mod. Much like a religion can syncretize with the Faith of the Seven and use Knights and Tournaments, I believe that the canonical acknowledgement of Weirwoods as something special should be adopted by other religions, should they so choose. This would cause the special Weirwood Building to spawn/"grow" on temples of that religion, allow for Weirwood Artifacts to be generated, and, perhaps, unlock other Old Gods specialties as need be.
The Weirwood mechanics are some of my favorite because of how beautiful a Weirwood tree is. I think that other religions, especially ones more connected to nature, could pick up on the idea that the divine is manifest in a white tree with red leaves. This would allow for a lot of exciting features and utilizations of game mechanics. I doubt anyone will pay attention to this beyond a cursory glance, but it would mean a lot to me to be able to spread Weirwoods across Essos and beyond.
Deus Vult, -TURTLESHROOM |
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Post by didgeridoo on Apr 20, 2019 15:26:01 GMT
If I'm not mistaken there is some pretty solid speculation that weirwoods can't grow anywhere their roots can't connect to the existing weirwood network. They can't grow across any sizeable bodies of water or through the mountains to Dorne for example.
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Post by rufff1 on Apr 20, 2019 15:44:54 GMT
If I'm not mistaken there is some pretty solid speculation that weirwoods can't grow anywhere their roots can't connect to the existing weirwood network. They can't grow across any sizeable bodies of water or through the mountains to Dorne for example. Considering we see weirwood in essos - House of Black and White, House of the Undying etc, and the existwence of the Ifquevron it is pretty likely that it grows in essos too - just without an entire religion centred around not cutting it down to protect it - therefore far less common also the idea it could grow through the Mountains of the Moon but not the far shorter Red Mountains seems super far fetched |
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Post by didgeridoo on Apr 20, 2019 17:06:41 GMT
Idk about all that. I think the thing about the mountains is that the passes in the red mountains are more mountainous. I also don't know what weirwoods grow in the vale. The basis of my post was an "in deep geek" video. I think we need some lore experts in here maybe Paxter Redwyne ? |
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Post by Karl on Apr 27, 2019 18:25:44 GMT
If I'm not mistaken there is some pretty solid speculation that weirwoods can't grow anywhere their roots can't connect to the existing weirwood network. They can't grow across any sizeable bodies of water or through the mountains to Dorne for example. Considering we see weirwood in essos - House of Black and White, House of the Undying etc, and the existwence of the Ifquevron it is pretty likely that it grows in essos too - just without an entire religion centred around not cutting it down to protect it - therefore far less common also the idea it could grow through the Mountains of the Moon but not the far shorter Red Mountains seems super far fetched The trees outside the House of the Undying aren't weirwoods as they are black. I don't recall anything about trees by the House of Black and White so I can't comment there. Very little is known about the Ifquevron. AFAIK there are just some maesters that have speculated that they are related to the Children of the Forest, but that's about it. But I think Didgeridoo nails it when he says that it's "speculation" - there is no solid evidence in the books of weirwoods anywhere outside Westeros. I do like the OP's notion of enabling weirwoods as a reform choice, though. It could either be that new weirwood growths are restricted to Westeros, or that they are not because, well, playability and enjoyment are more important than strict adherence to canon.  |
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Post by rufff1 on Apr 27, 2019 19:17:02 GMT
Considering we see weirwood in essos - House of Black and White, House of the Undying etc, and the existwence of the Ifquevron it is pretty likely that it grows in essos too - just without an entire religion centred around not cutting it down to protect it - therefore far less common also the idea it could grow through the Mountains of the Moon but not the far shorter Red Mountains seems super far fetched The trees outside the House of the Undying aren't weirwoods as they are black. I don't recall anything about trees by the House of Black and White so I can't comment there. Very little is known about the Ifquevron. AFAIK there are just some maesters that have speculated that they are related to the Children of the Forest, but that's about it. But I think Didgeridoo nails it when he says that it's "speculation" - there is no solid evidence in the books of weirwoods anywhere outside Westeros. I do like the OP's notion of enabling weirwoods as a reform choice, though. It could either be that new weirwood growths are restricted to Westeros, or that they are not because, well, playability and enjoyment are more important than strict adherence to canon. I wasn't talking about the trees outside the HotU, which as you rightly state are black, but inside is a giant carved frieze depicting the Warlocks at the height if their power, carved from weirwood, the HOTB&W has two giant carved doors at its ebrrance - one ebony the other weirwood. You are right about us knowing little about the Ifquevron but GRRM seems to be making it pretty clear they are or are at least kin to the CotF, they aren't important enough for the similarities to be misdirection. I'd also further add that Naggas bones appear to be petrified weirwood and Gaven Whitestaff had a weirwood staff, showing that weirwood once grew on the Iron Isles before the ironborn decided to cut them all down (as reflected by the demon tree Ygg of ironborn legend). I'm not saying its definite that they grow in essos, as you rightly say its not confirmed, I just think them only growing in westeros and getting blocked by mountains is a bit tinfoily |
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Post by Karl on Apr 27, 2019 22:56:11 GMT
I wouldn't say that having carved weirwood items means that they grew or grow locally, but fair enough for the rest of what you wrote about the weirwood trees. I'm not too sold on the Ifequevron being anything more than flavor, though, to be honest. They're briefly mentioned only in TWOIAF and a little bit in the app. I'm very cautious of ascribing any significance to briefly mentioned things that aren't in the main books. |
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Post by turtleshroom on Apr 28, 2019 17:12:58 GMT
The Three-Eyed Raven, and some Green Seers, use Weirwoods as literal security cameras. The idea that Weirwoods have a limited scope to Westoros makes little sense to me, because they are powerful enough to be used for full-HD surveillance anywhere a Weirwood tree goes. While it is undoubtedly canonical that Weirwoods have a great psychic link, there is no real specification that they are confined to Westoros.
As others have noted, Weirwoods would HAVE to have grown in Essos if the listed examples above me are made of Weirwood! How do you get a gargantuan door made of Weirwood in Essos despite the fact that the people that built it never went to Essos to begin with?
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Post by Karl on Apr 29, 2019 20:37:06 GMT
As others have noted, Weirwoods would HAVE to have grown in Essos if the listed examples above me are made of Weirwood! How do you get a gargantuan door made of Weirwood in Essos despite the fact that the people that built it never went to Essos to begin with? No? They could have been shipped there without any problems. Things far larger than doors, for example, are traded across the oceans both in ASOIAF and the real world on a daily basis. |
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Post by didgeridoo on Apr 30, 2019 15:50:51 GMT
So weirwood stumps still live after the tree is cut down. Where are the stumps in essos? The fact that in all of the writings there is no mention of weirwoods in essos is not an oversight. That doesn't mean they can't grow there but they didn't or else it would've been mentioned in some way. Presumably.
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Post by rufff1 on Apr 30, 2019 16:23:46 GMT
So weirwood stumps still live after the tree is cut down. Where are the stumps in essos? The fact that in all of the writings there is no mention of weirwoods in essos is not an oversight. That doesn't mean they can't grow there but they didn't or else it would've been mentioned in some way. Presumably. Weirwood stumps have magic, they don't live, if they were still live they would grow back , and uprooting a stump is pretty easy tbh, but more importantly of essos we have seen comparatively little, mostly in cities, deserts or a giant grassland, meanwhile in Westeros south of the Neck the only weirwood stumps we have seen are the ones at High Heart, despite the fact there were clearly a lot more that the Andals cut down. Saying GRRM hasn't mentioned a weirwood in Essos is the equivalent of going "GRRM hasn't mentioned owls in Essos, therefore owls do not live in Essos", sure it may be correct that there are no owls in Essos, but GRRM not mentioning them in the handful of POVs in Essos (remember only Dany, Arya, Quentyn, Victarion, Barristan and Tyrion have POVs set in Essos, and as a I said the vast majority of those are in Slaver's Bay, a desert/scrubland landscape) |
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Post by didgeridoo on Apr 30, 2019 17:02:33 GMT
Lol uprooting a stump of a large tree is not easy. Trees don't grow back from stumps they die. It is magic, it could be magic from the tree or a magical root network. You can't assume there are owls in essos |
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Post by didgeridoo on Apr 30, 2019 17:21:48 GMT
Just because there's no more evidence of stumps doesn't mean there aren't any.
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Post by rufff1 on Apr 30, 2019 17:33:10 GMT
Lol uprooting a stump of a large tree is not easy. Trees don't grow back from stumps they die. It is magic, it could be magic from the tree or a magical root network. You can't assume there are owls in essos 1. A few hours with a pick axe and a spade and you can get rid of most tree roots, I know because I've done it several times on small to medium trees, 2. Sometimes you cut down a tree and a few weeks later it grows basically a bush out the top and if you don't cut it off the tree starts trying to grow back 3. I know I can't prove there are owls in essos, but you also can't prove there aren't my point there is arguing from a place of next to no evidence is a waste of all of our time 4. My main point is that the gameplay feature suggested is cool and there's no real reason to say a weirwoods can't grow in essos, we know they can be planted as happens in castle godswoods and therefore someone could plant one in essos, the idea of the roots needing to connect with one another seems like tinfoil and I'm all for tinfoil, I have many myself but it's not the right place to debate tinfoil |
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Post by turtleshroom on May 6, 2019 1:09:02 GMT
I would advise that unless George Martin himself says "no, Weirwood Trees cannot grow in Essos", that we should assume Weirwood Trees CAN in fact grow in Essos.
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