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Post by Salty_Balls on Feb 1, 2019 9:42:47 GMT
As some of you might know, the ironborn invasion cb requires one to be both the follower of the drowned god religion as well as an ironborn culturally. In my opinion the said prerequisite is a bit arbitrary and excessive, since the whole aggressive expansion into the coastlands concept is more tied to the drowned god follower ideology, rather then being dependent on one belonging to the the islander culture. So why should the none islander drowned god followers suffer such a penalty?
Suggestion: remove the ironborn culture prerequisite for the drowned god coastal invasion cb.
P.s. Also if someone were to make an argument that being a follower of the drowned god should automatically result in one being an ironborn culturally, that doesn't fit well into the game mechanics and the setting because we had some canon examples of there being islanders that were the followers of the seven instead (Balon Blacktybe for example), so thus it makes more sense to attribute the "ironborn" culture to iron islander nationality rather that base it on belonging to the drowned god religion in general.
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Post by rufff1 on Feb 1, 2019 10:36:27 GMT
As some of you might know, the ironborn invasion cb requires one to be both the follower of the drowned god religion as well as an ironborn culturally. In my opinion the said prerequisite is a bit arbitrary and excessive, since the whole aggressive expansion into the coastlands concept is more tied to the drowned god follower ideology, rather then being dependent on one belonging to the the islander culture. So why should the none islander drowned god followers suffer such a penalty?
Suggestion: remove the ironborn culture prerequisite for the drowned god coastal invasion cb.
P.s. Also if someone were to make an argument that being a follower of the drowned god should automatically result in one being an ironborn culturally, doesn't fit well into the game mechanics and the setting because we had some canon examples of there being islanders that were the followers of the seven instead (Balon Blacktybe for example), so thus it makes more sense to attribute the "ironborn" culture to iron islander nationality rather that base it on belonging to the drowned god religion in general.
I'd argue the flip side, that it's a cultural thing rather than a religious thing, sure the religion of the drowned god offers a boost to raiders, but the raiding really stems from the culture, even a FoS Iron born like Baelor Blacktyde seemed to willingly take part in raids and invasions (he wanted peace to be sure but that was because he thought that the Ironborn kept being defeated) so I'd say if by some miracle the faith of the drowned god established itself somewhere with a stronger economic base and less of a martial culture the focus on invasions and raids would be reduced, therefore I'd agree having it tied to religion and culture is a little silly, so I'd tie it culture |
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Post by Salty_Balls on Feb 1, 2019 10:51:11 GMT
I don't see why the two should be mutually exclusive, sure the islanders themselves are a violent culture and that is probably the reason why they adopted such a violent religion in the first place, but i don't see why we would consider the drowned god ideology any less violent independently if it were to be take up by someone else other than the ironborn. I mean theoretically if someone were to adopt the said religion, it would be a group of people seeking to justify their violent intentions with a religion/ideology (with the drowned god demanding that his followers reap and pillage etc) and not a pacifist state that you bring up in your example.
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Post by rufff1 on Feb 1, 2019 11:51:45 GMT
Not saying they would be pacifists, but if we compare R'hllor faiths in westeros, you have the egalitarian form predicated on restorative justice practiced by the Brotherhood in the Riverlands, then you have the messianic, sacrificial form practiced by Mel and Stannis, both of which also differ from the more orthodox, structured form in Volantis, what I'm saying is if the drowned faith spread to a new region it could be similarly divergent, with a focus on the sea and drowning but less of a focus on taking prisoners and plunder, whereas if Theon had converted to the Old Gods or the Seven and become Lord of the Iron Isles he'd probably still go reaving and conquering because the Iron Isles economy is terrible and they have a cultural focus on killing everything. As a further example Euron has made his view of the Drowned God pretty clear but is still perfectly happy to reave and conquer
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Post by didgeridoo on Feb 1, 2019 15:57:54 GMT
One of the following must be true
*is ironborn
*follows the drowned God religion
?
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Post by Salty_Balls on Feb 1, 2019 16:35:25 GMT
One of the following must be true *is ironborn *follows the drowned God religion ?
We might be dealing with a bug then, because if you happen to be drowned god but not ironborn the cb won't show up at all as a war declaration option.
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Post by Salty_Balls on Feb 1, 2019 16:41:22 GMT
Not saying they would be pacifists, but if we compare R'hllor faiths in westeros, you have the egalitarian form predicated on restorative justice practiced by the Brotherhood in the Riverlands, then you have the messianic, sacrificial form practiced by Mel and Stannis, both of which also differ from the more orthodox, structured form in Volantis, what I'm saying is if the drowned faith spread to a new region it could be similarly divergent, with a focus on the sea and drowning but less of a focus on taking prisoners and plunder, whereas if Theon had converted to the Old Gods or the Seven and become Lord of the Iron Isles he'd probably still go reaving and conquering because the Iron Isles economy is terrible and they have a cultural focus on killing everything. As a further example Euron has made his view of the Drowned God pretty clear but is still perfectly happy to reave and conquer We can theorize all we want about how the drowned god religion could change under the influence of different people but since it is highly unlikely that the mod team will create a completely separate branch of the said religion just based on our none lore friendly speculations will will just have to make do with the canon version of the drowned faith which is based on violence. |
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Post by didgeridoo on Feb 1, 2019 17:07:55 GMT
One of the following must be true *is ironborn *follows the drowned God religion ?
We might be dealing with a bug then, because if you happen to be drowned god but not ironborn the cb won't show up at all as a war declaration option.
no thats my suggestion. I don't remember the requirements but I think it does require both. |
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Post by rufff1 on Feb 1, 2019 17:34:49 GMT
Not saying they would be pacifists, but if we compare R'hllor faiths in westeros, you have the egalitarian form predicated on restorative justice practiced by the Brotherhood in the Riverlands, then you have the messianic, sacrificial form practiced by Mel and Stannis, both of which also differ from the more orthodox, structured form in Volantis, what I'm saying is if the drowned faith spread to a new region it could be similarly divergent, with a focus on the sea and drowning but less of a focus on taking prisoners and plunder, whereas if Theon had converted to the Old Gods or the Seven and become Lord of the Iron Isles he'd probably still go reaving and conquering because the Iron Isles economy is terrible and they have a cultural focus on killing everything. As a further example Euron has made his view of the Drowned God pretty clear but is still perfectly happy to reave and conquer We can theorize all we want about how the drowned god religion could change under the influence of different people but since it is highly unlikely that the mod team will create a completely separate branch of the said religion just based on our none lore friendly speculations will will just have to make do with the canon version of the drowned faith which is based on violence. Sorry to clarify I wasn't suggesting a new branch of the religion, I was just explaining my reasoning for why I see raiding as a cultural thing over a religious one |
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