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Post by tybor87 on Jan 29, 2019 18:12:29 GMT
Currently men and women have the same base personal combat capabilities and IMO it is not realistic. An average woman have less muscle mass and more frail bone structure than an average man and the stats should reflect that. I propose to add a modifier +10 to PCS for all adult and teenager male characters or an opposite modifier to women to better simulate real life combat capabilities. I humbly please to not turn this suggestion into some political debate or gender war. This proposition is based on common sense and real life examples from various sport disciplines or martial arts.
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Toccs
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Post by Toccs on Jan 29, 2019 22:26:47 GMT
So a dweeb like Littlefinger who can barely hold a sword would receive a combat stat boost for having a penis while a hardened warrior like Brienne or Ygritte would be punished for not?
There's already limitations on when a female character is eligible to lead armies, be knighted, fight in battles, etc which handles it in a more dynamic way that a arbitrary mass applied stat increase. Your Sansa type female characters are not on the battlefield just like your Littlefinger type male characters usually are not or get killed if they do.
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Post by hnrqb1 on Jan 29, 2019 22:56:18 GMT
Also you can't train your daughters already, so that gives a clear combat advantage for males.
I'd like to suggest though that daughters that have strong, quick or a martial education could be trained by their parents, grandparents and marshals, if that's possible.
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Post by rufff1 on Jan 30, 2019 0:26:18 GMT
Also you can't train your daughters already, so that gives a clear combat advantage for males. I'd like to suggest though that daughters that have strong, quick or a martial education could be trained by their parents, grandparents and marshals, if that's possible. I'd suggest a trait or modifier that is something "egalitarian notions" that enables you to train girls, rather than making it dependant on strength etc, dornish and other largely gender neutral cultures should have a higher chance of it and it should be low for the rest of westeros, it's basically like how Ned arranged for Syrio to tutor Arya,
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Post by didgeridoo on Jan 30, 2019 0:30:17 GMT
You should be able to force train dwarves too. I was really looking forward to trying to get an ironborn FF dwarf. He died of greyscale anyway though.
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Post by soulbourne on Jan 30, 2019 1:25:42 GMT
Generally even the structure person to person applies, and this would be better represented by using a broader array of genetic traits anyways, since some women *Cough* brienne *Cough* are built a lot more sturdy than most men could ever hope to be, while some men are pretty useless as far as physical development goes. Generally their are other reasons why women tended not to be soldiers in many cultures besides just physical differences, since many women could successfully bulk up if need be and depending on lifestyle often did just doing heavy labor like trying to make a cow go where it doesn't want too. The way game of thrones is presented one could argue that there are a fair few more chances for men to be physically deficient simply because there seem to be a lot of fat poorly maintained men than women who let themselves go, so there's a good chance if actually trained the women due to a healthier lifestyle would actually be more capable.
Now if only some of their brothers would realize unhealthy guys tend to be easy targets for succession by knife.
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joca
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Post by joca on Jan 30, 2019 1:29:56 GMT
As a lifetime karate practitioner and competitive athlete I call this bollocks. Your "common sense" is not so common as you might think.
Sincerely, my many-times-handed-to-me-in-practices ass and any martial arts practitioner.
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Post by rufff1 on Jan 30, 2019 1:52:24 GMT
Generally even the structure person to person applies, and this would be better represented by using a broader array of genetic traits anyways, since some women *Cough* brienne *Cough* are built a lot more sturdy than most men could ever hope to be, while some men are pretty useless as far as physical development goes. Generally their are other reasons why women tended not to be soldiers in many cultures besides just physical differences, since many women could successfully bulk up if need be and depending on lifestyle often did just doing heavy labor like trying to make a cow go where it doesn't want too. The way game of thrones is presented one could argue that there are a fair few more chances for men to be physically deficient simply because there seem to be a lot of fat poorly maintained men than women who let themselves go, so there's a good chance if actually trained the women due to a healthier lifestyle would actually be more capable. Now if only some of their brothers would realize unhealthy guys tend to be easy targets for succession by knife. Yeah I'd also add that even though there are physical differences between men and women that doesn't mean there aren't ways around it, sure you have fighter like brienne who fight like a traditional Westerosi knight would, but then you have characters like Arya who focus their training on speed and agility saying that men are better fighters because they are usually bigger and stronger is to adopt a "Gregor smash" mentality which just isn't correct
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Post by kappa on Jan 30, 2019 4:56:07 GMT
It is true that men more naturally cultivate muscle and obviously are more likely to be trained in fighting. But the latter of these things is already represented in game (sometimes frustratingly so because a kick ass daughter can't be force trained) and the former is complicated. Because it's not like all men are stronger than all women or anything remotely close to that, and in a video game (especially a mod for a fantasy world) I don't think there should be an expectation to put in complex systems where men are more likely to become robust or something like that, it's just too much of an abstraction behind the actual reality.
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Post by tybor87 on Jan 30, 2019 6:43:20 GMT
So a dweeb like Littlefinger who can barely hold a sword would receive a combat stat boost for having a penis while a hardened warrior like Brienne or Ygritte would be punished for not? There's already limitations on when a female character is eligible to lead armies, be knighted, fight in battles, etc which handles it in a more dynamic way that a arbitrary mass applied stat increase. Your Sansa type female characters are not on the battlefield just like your Littlefinger type male characters usually are not or get killed if they do. Yes he should and this +10 bonus will mean nothing compared to superior training and other traits of those two. I meant an AVERAGE man vs an AVERAGE woman without other traits or training. This game has other arbitrary mass stats for children and teenagers so why not to differentiate men and women. It is true that an exceptional woman like Brienne can beat many men but this is an exception. If Littlefinger had twin sister with the same traits and fighting skills he would surely had an advantage over her for having testosterone enhanced male body type. Pure biology.
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Post by tybor87 on Jan 30, 2019 6:47:53 GMT
As a lifetime karate practitioner and competitive athlete I call this bollocks. Your "common sense" is not so common as you might think. Sincerely, my many-times-handed-to-me-in-practices ass and any martial arts practitioner. Yeah... an anecdotal account of a dubious source...Anyone can pose to be anyone on the internet.
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Post by tybor87 on Jan 30, 2019 6:53:27 GMT
Generally even the structure person to person applies, and this would be better represented by using a broader array of genetic traits anyways, since some women *Cough* brienne *Cough* are built a lot more sturdy than most men could ever hope to be, while some men are pretty useless as far as physical development goes. Generally their are other reasons why women tended not to be soldiers in many cultures besides just physical differences, since many women could successfully bulk up if need be and depending on lifestyle often did just doing heavy labor like trying to make a cow go where it doesn't want too. The way game of thrones is presented one could argue that there are a fair few more chances for men to be physically deficient simply because there seem to be a lot of fat poorly maintained men than women who let themselves go, so there's a good chance if actually trained the women due to a healthier lifestyle would actually be more capable. Now if only some of their brothers would realize unhealthy guys tend to be easy targets for succession by knife. But it is already. If we apply a +10 bonus to all men, women with strong trait still will have an advantage. But even the strongest woman will never have the strength of the strongest man. Just look at weightlifting records and other examples from real life. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_Olympic_weightlifting
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Toccs
Moderator
Posts: 474
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Post by Toccs on Jan 30, 2019 8:07:28 GMT
It's been pretty thoroughly explained in game terms, in lore terms and in real world terms why this isn't going to happen in the mod. Therefore the only thing left to discuss is to debate whether or not men are stronger than women, and since this isn't a forum for that, I'm locking this thread.
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