gink
Member
Posts: 18 
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Post by gink on Jan 14, 2019 23:15:29 GMT
So, right now the Daynes have the Nymeros-Martell bloodline, which is pretty weird. The Daynes are a much older family than the Martells. The Daynes were firstmen (some say proto valyrians), the Martells were andal, and came much later, Nymeria even later.
What I`m saying is, the Daynes should have their own bloodline, or none at all, because sharing with the Martells is a bit silly.
Please correct me if I`ve missed something about these two houses, but I really don`t think I`m wrong on this.
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Post by anarchys2ndson on Jan 14, 2019 23:30:20 GMT
This has been posted already, and it's a bug that the devs acknowledged. However, in the family tree, a Dayne married Nymeria, and their son carried on the Dayne lineage. also, just want to note. whatever you do, whatever bloodline Nymeria gets, it passes on to every Martell, regardless of who they marry, if it's a regular marriage. So even in creating a new bloodline, and giving to Nymeria's dynasty, that bloodline, transfers to every Martell, including Mors, and after him as well.
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Post by Green on Jan 15, 2019 2:56:22 GMT
As anarchys2ndson said, it's because the more recent Daynes (anything that takes place after the final bookmark in the Rhoynish Wars submod) are descended from Nymeria. |
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gink
Member
Posts: 18
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Post by gink on Jan 15, 2019 9:45:26 GMT
This has been posted already, and it's a bug that the devs acknowledged. However, in the family tree, a Dayne married Nymeria, and their son carried on the Dayne lineage. also, just want to note. whatever you do, whatever bloodline Nymeria gets, it passes on to every Martell, regardless of who they marry, if it's a regular marriage. So even in creating a new bloodline, and giving to Nymeria's dynasty, that bloodline, transfers to every Martell, including Mors, and after him as well.
Allright, thanks for info. |
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Toccs
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Posts: 474
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Post by Toccs on Jan 15, 2019 9:49:30 GMT
This has been posted already, and it's a bug that the devs acknowledged. However, in the family tree, a Dayne married Nymeria, and their son carried on the Dayne lineage. also, just want to note. whatever you do, whatever bloodline Nymeria gets, it passes on to every Martell, regardless of who they marry, if it's a regular marriage. So even in creating a new bloodline, and giving to Nymeria's dynasty, that bloodline, transfers to every Martell, including Mors, and after him as well.
Allright, thanks for info. Think you ment a Martell married Nymeria, because no Dayne did, hence my post.
Davos Dayne the Sword of the Morning was Nymeria's third husband, they had a son together who didn't inherit Dorne because Nymeria had older daughters from her marriage to Mors Martell.
In the mod, that son from Davos Dayne is also the progenitor of all Daynes going forward, which is why they are getting the bloodline. It's currently undecided if this is a bug or not.
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gink
Member
Posts: 18
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Post by gink on Jan 15, 2019 9:54:08 GMT
As anarchys2ndson said, it's because the more recent Daynes (anything that takes place after the final bookmark in the Rhoynish Wars submod) are descended from Nymeria. So I just checked the world book, and Nymeria did marry Davos Dayne, The Sword of the Morning, and they did have a son. Davos does`nt seem to have been Lord of Starfall though (he is just mentined as SotM, not lord), so I`m not sure the currrent lords of Starfall acctually are descended from Nymeria. MAybe that`s where the Daynes of High Hermitage (Darkstar) comes from? It does not say in the book what happened to Ser Davos and Nymerias son. |
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gink
Member
Posts: 18
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Post by gink on Jan 15, 2019 9:58:32 GMT
Seems we both corrected me at the same time  |
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Post by anarchys2ndson on Jan 15, 2019 10:21:53 GMT
Allright, thanks for info. Think you ment a Martell married Nymeria, because no Dayne did, hence my post.
Davos Dayne the Sword of the Morning was Nymeria's third husband, they had a son together who didn't inherit Dorne because Nymeria had older daughters from her marriage to Mors Martell.
In the mod, that son from Davos Dayne is also the progenitor of all Daynes going forward, which is why they are getting the bloodline. It's currently undecided if this is a bug or not.
well quick question then, if I created a bloodline for the Daynes, and applied it Davos' father, so Davos has the Dayne bloodline. shouldn't that cancel out nymeria's bloodline for the Daynes then?
I think it should, but it doesn't happen. although, now thinking about it, if the bloodline starts with her, and she is a higher rank than Davos, is that why it isn't cancelled out?
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Post by rufff1 on Jan 15, 2019 10:51:22 GMT
Davos Dayne the Sword of the Morning was Nymeria's third husband, they had a son together who didn't inherit Dorne because Nymeria had older daughters from her marriage to Mors Martell.
In the mod, that son from Davos Dayne is also the progenitor of all Daynes going forward, which is why they are getting the bloodline. It's currently undecided if this is a bug or not.
well quick question then, if I created a bloodline for the Daynes, and applied it Davos' father, so Davos has the Dayne bloodline. shouldn't that cancel out nymeria's bloodline for the Daynes then?
I think it should, but it doesn't happen. although, now thinking about it, if the bloodline starts with her, and she is a higher rank than Davos, is that why it isn't cancelled out?
Bloodlines don't cancel each other out, they stack |
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Post by anarchys2ndson on Jan 15, 2019 12:33:21 GMT
Bloodlines don't cancel each other out, they stack well cancel was the wrong word, but they're some marriages, regular marriages. If the lady has a patrilineal bloodline, and the man has one as well, the child only gets one. the one from the father, not both. |
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gink
Member
Posts: 18
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Post by gink on Jan 15, 2019 14:22:49 GMT
Bloodlines don't cancel each other out, they stack well cancel was the wrong word, but they're some marriages, regular marriages. If the lady has a patrilineal bloodline, and the man has one as well, the child only gets one. the one from the father, not both. Yes, you can`t get a patrilinial bloodline from females, only from males, you get matrilinial bloodlines from your mother, and patrilinial bloodlines from your father. (I guess, I`ve not tested much yet) |
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Post by Karl on Feb 4, 2019 0:01:04 GMT
well cancel was the wrong word, but they're some marriages, regular marriages. If the lady has a patrilineal bloodline, and the man has one as well, the child only gets one. the one from the father, not both. Yes, you can`t get a patrilinial bloodline from females, only from males, you get matrilinial bloodlines from your mother, and patrilinial bloodlines from your father. (I guess, I`ve not tested much yet) This is generally correct. An exception exists in so called "matrilineal transfer." In matrilineal marriages you get bloodlines the normal way, but you _also_ get patrilineal from your mother and matrilineal from your father. This can be used to stack bloodlines in your descendants. It's not really that big of a deal in the AGOT mod where most of the bloodlines only offer nominal benefits, but you can rapidly add up a bunch of powerful bloodlines in regular CK2. On my current play-through I have the blood of Ragnarr Lodbrok, three legend bloodlines, and the blood of Genghis Khan in my dynasty (with several people having all five of them). It's fun but gets a bit OP after a while.  |
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Post by lunasmeow on Feb 24, 2019 18:39:53 GMT
Allright, thanks for info. Think you ment a Martell married Nymeria, because no Dayne did, hence my post.
Davos Dayne the Sword of the Morning was Nymeria's third husband, they had a son together who didn't inherit Dorne because Nymeria had older daughters from her marriage to Mors Martell.
In the mod, that son from Davos Dayne is also the progenitor of all Daynes going forward, which is why they are getting the bloodline. It's currently undecided if this is a bug or not.
The issue here is that AFAIK, the seed is strong bit carries with the bloodline, which will make future Daynes who have no "forced portrait" look like Martels instead of having their unique looks which seem to be a blend of Stark and Targ. Dark hair like the Northerners, but purple eyes like Targs. It might be better to simply force that one ancestor to not get the bloodline, and have him instead have a Dayne bloodline that is passed down. In a similar vein, Joffrey and his siblings should probably be forced to get the Lannister bloodline rather than the Baratheon one - unless the looks are controlled via Dynasty instead of bloodline... Looking at the changelog, it merely says "Great Houses and their bloodlines get unique genetics" so it's unclear if Joffrey's kids will carry Robert's looks, despite us all knowing who his real father is. Makes things a bit confusing. Honestly the only reason I care about the bloodline issue is that I like the Houses keeping their unique looks, so I now wonder if Joffrey getting exposed as Jaime's kid will effect the bloodline he has - does he suddenly lose it and gain the Lannister one instead? Same for his siblings? Does that change what their children look like? Will any children he has pre-exposure look like Baratheons, and their post-exposure siblings look like Lannisters? Do some bloodlines trump others to make the High Valyrian looks become harder to maintain in mixed lineages? It's confusing without more detail. The other thing a Dayne bloodline would be good for though, is allowing Houses outside of House Dayne to wield Dawn, should the player manage to get a Matrilineal marriage, and obtain both the lineage and the sword. This is something the computer is unlikely to succeed in, keeping the sword inside house Dayne for normal play, but making it possible for players to become "The Sword of the Morning" without being of the Dayne dynasty, just having the lineage. |
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Post by rufff1 on Feb 24, 2019 19:40:29 GMT
Davos Dayne the Sword of the Morning was Nymeria's third husband, they had a son together who didn't inherit Dorne because Nymeria had older daughters from her marriage to Mors Martell.
In the mod, that son from Davos Dayne is also the progenitor of all Daynes going forward, which is why they are getting the bloodline. It's currently undecided if this is a bug or not.
The issue here is that AFAIK, the seed is strong bit carries with the bloodline, which will make future Daynes who have no "forced portrait" look like Martels instead of having their unique looks which seem to be a blend of Stark and Targ. Dark hair like the Northerners, but purple eyes like Targs. It might be better to simply force that one ancestor to not get the bloodline, and have him instead have a Dayne bloodline that is passed down. In a similar vein, Joffrey and his siblings should probably be forced to get the Lannister bloodline rather than the Baratheon one - unless the looks are controlled via Dynasty instead of bloodline... Looking at the changelog, it merely says "Great Houses and their bloodlines get unique genetics" so it's unclear if Joffrey's kids will carry Robert's looks, despite us all knowing who his real father is. Makes things a bit confusing. Honestly the only reason I care about the bloodline issue is that I like the Houses keeping their unique looks, so I now wonder if Joffrey getting exposed as Jaime's kid will effect the bloodline he has - does he suddenly lose it and gain the Lannister one instead? Same for his siblings? Does that change what their children look like? Will any children he has pre-exposure look like Baratheons, and their post-exposure siblings look like Lannisters? Do some bloodlines trump others to make the High Valyrian looks become harder to maintain in mixed lineages? It's confusing without more detail. The other thing a Dayne bloodline would be good for though, is allowing Houses outside of House Dayne to wield Dawn, should the player manage to get a Matrilineal marriage, and obtain both the lineage and the sword. This is something the computer is unlikely to succeed in, keeping the sword inside house Dayne for normal play, but making it possible for players to become "The Sword of the Morning" without being of the Dayne dynasty, just having the lineage. Giving a character a new bloodline does NOT stop that ancestor passing on any other bloodlines they have, characters can readily have multiple bloodlines, bloodlines are essentially a character modifier. The only proposal I can offer to fix the Daynes getting the Martell look is making a limit that if a character is the Dayne dynasty the event that gives a character Martell_gfx doesn't fire. As for the Lannister Baratheons what I did in More Bloodlines to stop them becoming strong like other Baratheons was make the event not fire if a parent has a secret_bastard flag. This wouldn't stop grandkids etc though. Additionally as they become Lannisters in ACOK you could make the event not fire if a character's dynasty was Lannister |
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Post by lunasmeow on Feb 24, 2019 19:52:32 GMT
The issue here is that AFAIK, the seed is strong bit carries with the bloodline, which will make future Daynes who have no "forced portrait" look like Martels instead of having their unique looks which seem to be a blend of Stark and Targ. Dark hair like the Northerners, but purple eyes like Targs. It might be better to simply force that one ancestor to not get the bloodline, and have him instead have a Dayne bloodline that is passed down. In a similar vein, Joffrey and his siblings should probably be forced to get the Lannister bloodline rather than the Baratheon one - unless the looks are controlled via Dynasty instead of bloodline... Looking at the changelog, it merely says "Great Houses and their bloodlines get unique genetics" so it's unclear if Joffrey's kids will carry Robert's looks, despite us all knowing who his real father is. Makes things a bit confusing. Honestly the only reason I care about the bloodline issue is that I like the Houses keeping their unique looks, so I now wonder if Joffrey getting exposed as Jaime's kid will effect the bloodline he has - does he suddenly lose it and gain the Lannister one instead? Same for his siblings? Does that change what their children look like? Will any children he has pre-exposure look like Baratheons, and their post-exposure siblings look like Lannisters? Do some bloodlines trump others to make the High Valyrian looks become harder to maintain in mixed lineages? It's confusing without more detail. The other thing a Dayne bloodline would be good for though, is allowing Houses outside of House Dayne to wield Dawn, should the player manage to get a Matrilineal marriage, and obtain both the lineage and the sword. This is something the computer is unlikely to succeed in, keeping the sword inside house Dayne for normal play, but making it possible for players to become "The Sword of the Morning" without being of the Dayne dynasty, just having the lineage. Giving a character a new bloodline does NOT stop that ancestor passing on any other bloodlines they have, characters can readily have multiple bloodlines, bloodlines are essentially a character modifier. The only proposal I can offer to fix the Daynes getting the Martell look is making a limit that if a character is the Dayne dynasty the event that gives a character Martell_gfx doesn't fire. As for the Lannister Baratheons what I did in More Bloodlines to stop them becoming strong like other Baratheons was make the event not fire if a parent has a secret_bastard flag. This wouldn't stop grandkids etc though. Additionally as they become Lannisters in ACOK you could make the event not fire if a character's dynasty was Lannister I never said that giving a new bloodline would stop it - hence why I specifically said that the character might need to be forced not to get the Martell bloodline and then given the proposed Dayne bloodline. You seem to have terribly misunderstood what I said. I'd suggest a re-read. The rest of what you say has merit as a possible start for some other solution though. Though frankly simply scripting it so that those with the "secret_bastard" flag don't get the bloodlines of their false parent, instead gaining the bloodlines of their real parent would be a simpler fix, as this would fix it for them and their descendants. |
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