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Post by rufff1 on Aug 28, 2019 10:02:48 GMT
So I played a bit with it and I thoroughly enjoyed the newest update, I do have a few suggestions. Tone down the animal thing a bit, after 5 years most of the Mormonts had a plethora of bears and every Blacktree had a raven. Animal companions in lore are rare enough that they're noteworthy (the dire wolves are a big thing). Restrict it to those who either get a skinchanger trait or are the head of the night's watch (who gets a raven). Which leads me onto. Restrict the entrance requirements to the skinchangers society. Again, there were people from all over the gaff joining it. This is a bloodlines mod rather than a skinchanging mod, however I'd possibly make a "skinchanger" or "warg" trait which the Stark children get and is incredibly rare, possibly got through first man blood (backwoods, starks, wildlings). This way you won't have Lotho Lowborn from Pentos joining because he has a dog. I already reduced the chance of getting an animal by 20% in the update, if its still too much I'll reduce it a bit more. I'll also limit the society to Westeros - I do still think that there are grounds for people south of the wall to join it as its not really meant to be viewed as a society per se but more a representation of the weirwoodnet and the ability of greenseers to contact skinchangers and bring them together. |
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Post by rufff1 on Aug 28, 2019 10:09:45 GMT
I like this amount personally, but I might make a less bloodlines version if there's an appetite for it for people who want a bit less. Which bloodlines would you scrap? rufff1 I like your mod but I'm with Tyon don't you have a version that only has the house founder bloodlines? that doesn't really go with the flavour of the mod, or the way the bloodlines are set up (to take the targaryens, Aegon the Conqueror has a piety penalty to reflect the issues the Faith of Seven has with his incest, then this penalty is removed by the Jahaerys the Conciliator bloodline as he invents the Doctrine of Exceptionalism fixing issues with the Faith, his bloodline also adds a healthy vassal opinion boost to symbolise his revered rule, but the Mad King Bloodline undoes this vassal opinion boost and adds a malus, symbolising how Aerys ruined the Targaryen reputation) if you remove all but the Aegon bloodline you loose all of that, plus I genuinely don't think it would be popular enough to merit, you are easily able to just go into the history files and search create_bloodline and delete all the bloodlines you want to remove if you want to get rid of bloodlines |
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Post by ogarrr on Aug 28, 2019 10:25:17 GMT
I already reduced the chance of getting an animal by 20% in the update, if its still too much I'll reduce it a bit more. I'll also limit the society to Westeros - I do still think that there are grounds for people south of the wall to join it as its not really meant to be viewed as a society per se but more a representation of the weirwoodnet and the ability of greenseers to contact skinchangers and bring them together. So I can understand that, I personally have limited it to the following: has_character_modifier = suspected_skinchanger has_character_flag = multi_animal_skinchanger has_character_flag = wolf_child 20% is still too high, imo. It should be rare flavour for when (or if) they do become skinchangers. I have then limited the skinchanger society to include those, people with greensight and cotf. That way it's a bit more exclusive and folk such as Jeor Mormont don't join (that was probably Bloodraven's raven following him around). A quick edit of the history files can include effect = { add_character_modifier = { name = suspected_skinchanger duration = -1 } } on any skinchangers you want in the society straight away. |
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Post by ogarrr on Aug 28, 2019 10:28:10 GMT
I would also suggest a dedicated on_actions file, you don't need to directly edit the 00_on_actions and can add your own separate one which appends into as per a previous update ages ago. This will increase compatibility and make updating way easier.
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Post by rufff1 on Aug 28, 2019 10:39:38 GMT
I already reduced the chance of getting an animal by 20% in the update, if its still too much I'll reduce it a bit more. I'll also limit the society to Westeros - I do still think that there are grounds for people south of the wall to join it as its not really meant to be viewed as a society per se but more a representation of the weirwoodnet and the ability of greenseers to contact skinchangers and bring them together. So I can understand that, I personally have limited it to the following: has_character_modifier = suspected_skinchanger has_character_flag = multi_animal_skinchanger has_character_flag = wolf_child 20% is still too high, imo. It should be rare flavour for when (or if) they do become skinchangers. I have then limited the skinchanger society to include those, people with greensight and cotf. That way it's a bit more exclusive and folk such as Jeor Mormont don't join (that was probably Bloodraven's raven following him around). A quick edit of the history files can include effect = { add_character_modifier = { name = suspected_skinchanger duration = -1 } } on any skinchangers you want in the society straight away. With Jeor I’m of the opinion that he is a genuine skinchanger (doesn’t he make some comment to Jon Snow about Ghost that completely flies over Jon’s head or am I misremembering?) and I reckon it is probably linked to one of the two daughter of Cregan and Black Aly (we never find out who they married but it wouldn’t have surprised me if it were a Mormont). I will decrease the chance of skin changing animals being gained a bit more, but I don’t want to make the society impossible to join because for people who want to join it making it so exclusive just feels unfair |
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Post by ogarrr on Aug 28, 2019 10:44:33 GMT
Fair play to that, at the moment every single lord of Raventree has had a raven along with a few of their sons and all of the she bears of Bear Island have at least 1 bear. A once in 50 years chance would probably be a better option, with that decreasing if you have the character_modifier suspected_skinchanger. Whilst it's cool to have all the Mormonts run around with massive bears, it's not very lore friendly and this mod always struck me as lore friendly.
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Post by rufff1 on Aug 28, 2019 10:47:26 GMT
Fair play to that, at the moment every single lord of Raventree has had a raven along with a few of their sons and all of the she bears of Bear Island have at least 1 bear. A once in 50 years chance would probably be a better option, with that decreasing if you have the character_modifier suspected_skinchanger. Whilst it's cool to have all the Mormonts run around with massive bears, it's not very lore friendly and this mod always struck me as lore friendly. But where do little Mormont come from... ;P I jest I’ll probably crank the likelihood down another 30% from where it is currently (tbf it’s really pretty low atm it’s mostly the boosts that certain traits such as mystic or zealous Old Gods worship or brave that can stack that make it likely for certain characters) |
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Post by ogarrr on Aug 28, 2019 10:50:30 GMT
Which all of the Lady Mormonts have! Even little Lyanna is riding around on a bear by the age of 6! Sensationalism is best left to the TV show  . Another option would be a game rule, with one restricting it to skinchangers and the other leaving it so that they can all get traits. As I said, I made my own personal changes, but that's only because I spend more time in notepad++ than the actual game. |
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Post by ogarrr on Aug 28, 2019 11:07:57 GMT
It might also have something to do with the fact that you're missing days = 1 underneath the weight_modifier.
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Post by Elotyr on Aug 28, 2019 13:44:21 GMT
So I played a bit with it and I thoroughly enjoyed the newest update, I do have a few suggestions. Tone down the animal thing a bit, after 5 years most of the Mormonts had a plethora of bears and every Blacktree had a raven. Animal companions in lore are rare enough that they're noteworthy (the dire wolves are a big thing). Restrict it to those who either get a skinchanger trait or are the head of the night's watch (who gets a raven). Which leads me onto. Restrict the entrance requirements to the skinchangers society. Again, there were people from all over the gaff joining it. This is a bloodlines mod rather than a skinchanging mod, however I'd possibly make a "skinchanger" or "warg" trait which the Stark children get and is incredibly rare, possibly got through first man blood (backwoods, starks, wildlings). This way you won't have Lotho Lowborn from Pentos joining because he has a dog. I already reduced the chance of getting an animal by 20% in the update, if its still too much I'll reduce it a bit more. I'll also limit the society to Westeros - I do still think that there are grounds for people south of the wall to join it as its not really meant to be viewed as a society per se but more a representation of the weirwoodnet and the ability of greenseers to contact skinchangers and bring them together. I think the addition of a Skinchanger/Warg trait kind works, being one you need to get as a child. We only see Wargs learning it during childhood with the Starks or already being wargs as adults in the case of Varamyr or Orell. To get the animal skins events to trigger during adulthood. This way they can still have the 20% chance as a adult, but only if the character has this trait. |
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Post by rufff1 on Aug 28, 2019 13:51:02 GMT
I already reduced the chance of getting an animal by 20% in the update, if its still too much I'll reduce it a bit more. I'll also limit the society to Westeros - I do still think that there are grounds for people south of the wall to join it as its not really meant to be viewed as a society per se but more a representation of the weirwoodnet and the ability of greenseers to contact skinchangers and bring them together. I think the addition of a Skinchanger/Warg trait kind works, being one you need to get as a child. We only see Wargs learning it during childhood with the Starks or already being wargs as adults in the case of Varamyr or Orell. To get the animal skins events to trigger during adulthood. This way they can still have the 20% chance as a adult, but only if the character has this trait. Don’t really agree, Jorah’s raven seems newish or at least it’s be a miraculously long lived raven if he had it in childhood and Rob and Jon were both nearly adults when they got their animals, plus our sample size to work out the rules of skin changing is less than 20 people |
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joca
Member
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Post by joca on Aug 28, 2019 14:00:20 GMT
It might also have something to do with the fact that you're missing days = 1 underneath the weight_modifier. This one flew by *me own head* as I'm trying to set your mentioned changes. What do you mean by this? Would it decrease the appearance of "animal menagerie" everywhere? Where to place it? EDIT: ^This as well xD |
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Post by Elotyr on Aug 28, 2019 14:00:42 GMT
I think the addition of a Skinchanger/Warg trait kind works, being one you need to get as a child. We only see Wargs learning it during childhood with the Starks or already being wargs as adults in the case of Varamyr or Orell. To get the animal skins events to trigger during adulthood. This way they can still have the 20% chance as a adult, but only if the character has this trait. Don’t really agree, Jorah’s raven seems newish or at least it’s be a miraculously long lived raven if he had it in childhood and Rob and Jon were both nearly adults when they got their animals, plus our sample size to work out the rules of skin changing is less than 20 people Yes you have a point in that, but the way i was thinking is like that: You can get the Warg trait as a child, being able to go out of your own skin when sleeping, but not necessarily claiming a second one, then you can get the event to trigger as a adult to claim one, as in Jeor's raven example. |
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aconda
Modder (CK2)
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Post by aconda on Aug 28, 2019 14:42:03 GMT
Having a "tier" based system really helps with fleshing out a level for each seperate existing case, making it possible to get some consistancy within a "magical" construct.
Some consistancy for those early days of a warg does seem to indicate a bonding aspect, aswell some degree of telepathic/empathic influence with the animal kind of being able to know/feeling what their warg/skinchanger partner wants.
For GRRM this allows to justify anything the animals do, being able to steer them easily as a plot device and for us, the reader it will play into our expectations.
Because we want to see a huge direwolf that behaves itself around other people and not randomly tearing people apart for feeding purpose and we like to see that the animal kind of does what we need it to do. So Ghost joining up again with Jon after the whole battle for the wall chapters, can be easily justified as something realistic within this construct.
Jeor's bond with his Raven seems to indicate this kind of construct aswell. All of the Stark's seem to have this same construct in place early on, even Shaggydog's behaviour with a young and wild Rickon.
And... well, even dragonbonding might follow this same construct. Arguably, an early version of warging/skinchanging. Maybe it's the only version available when it comes to dragons.
The wolf dreams might fit the lvl1 construct, growing a person more and more into a 2nd level of warging/skinchanging, before really opening their 3rd eye.
The green dreams are an entirely different topic, related to the magical construct but different.
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Post by Elotyr on Aug 28, 2019 15:02:23 GMT
Having a "tier" based system really helps with fleshing out a level for each seperate existing case, making it possible to get some consistancy within a "magical" construct. Some consistancy for those early days of a warg does seem to indicate a bonding aspect, aswell some degree of telepathic/empathic influence with the animal kind of being able to know/feeling what their warg/skinchanger partner wants. For GRRM this allows to justify anything the animals do, being able to steer them easily as a plot device and for us, the reader it will play into our expectations. Because we want to see a huge direwolf that behaves itself around other people and not randomly tearing people apart for feeding purpose and we like to see that the animal kind of does what we need it to do. So Ghost joining up again with Jon after the whole battle for the wall chapters, can be easily justified as something realistic within this construct. Jeor's bond with his Raven seems to indicate this kind of construct aswell. All of the Stark's seem to have this same construct in place early on, even Shaggydog's behaviour with a young and wild Rickon. And... well, even dragonbonding might follow this same construct. Arguably, an early version of warging/skinchanging. Maybe it's the only version available when it comes to dragons. The wolf dreams might fit the lvl1 construct, growing a person more and more into a 2nd level of warging/skinchanging, before really opening their 3rd eye. The green dreams are an entirely different topic, related to the magical construct but different. Sometimes i ask myself if Jeor's Raven is not just the way Bloodraven has to keep i eye in the Lord Commander of the Wall, the way he influenced Jon's ellection and stayed with him seems to hint to that. Btw, talking about Skinchangers using animals to keeping a eye out in someone, are you guys thinking in adding a way to use them in murder plots/assassinations? |
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. Another option would be a game rule, with one restricting it to skinchangers and the other leaving it so that they can all get traits. As I said, I made my own personal changes, but that's only because I spend more time in notepad++ than the actual game.
