joona
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Post by joona on Jul 21, 2018 20:52:07 GMT
Stannis should have the skilled fighter trait instead of just trained fighter. He's one of the finest warriors in the realm.
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Toccs
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Post by Toccs on Jul 21, 2018 23:31:53 GMT
He's one of the finest commanders, not necessarily finest fighter. Off the top of my head, I don't think we ever actually see him fight in the books.
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Post by rufff1 on Jul 23, 2018 18:10:49 GMT
Stannis refused to duel Cortnay Penrose which I think reflects that he put better stock in his ability to command a siege than as a swordsman#
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Post by sourjapes on Jul 25, 2018 1:51:12 GMT
He's one of the finest commanders, not necessarily finest fighter. Off the top of my head, I don't think we ever actually see him fight in the books.
On a somewhat related note, why does Ned have the skilled fighter trait? That puts him in good standing against say, Bronze Yohn Royce, who was able to best Ned and AND Jory at the same time. I understand why, for game balance reasons, Ned might be a skilled fighter for Robert's Rebellion... but is that necessary? I mean, you have an extra life with Benjen anyway and the freak occurrences of history are special for a reason. Just my opinion.
Anyway, I concur that nothing of Stannis' fighting ability is ever stated. Given his personality though it seems he would be as well castle trained as any serious Lord even if he isn't the warrior type like his brothers.
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Toccs
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Post by Toccs on Jul 25, 2018 6:08:46 GMT
Ned fought and defeated the Kingsguard at the ToJ and fought Jaime Lannister and was only defeated after interference. The game balance reasons would probably be because without it he is garanteed dead at the ToJ every game.
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Post by kuczaja on Jul 25, 2018 14:58:29 GMT
Ned vs Jaime duel was show-only iirc.
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Post by frogface on Jul 25, 2018 16:32:11 GMT
Tbf the only example of Jaime's supposed amazingness we get is Barristan thinking he is/was a natural swordsman and him killing several Northmen in the battle of the Whispering Wood.
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Toccs
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Post by Toccs on Jul 25, 2018 21:40:10 GMT
Ned vs Jaime duel was show-only iirc.
Is it? But in the books Ned still got his leg broken and Jaime still fled Kings Landing, how did all that go down without the duel?
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Post by rufff1 on Jul 25, 2018 22:00:41 GMT
Yeah they fight in the books but its Eddard and 2 men against 20 lannisters and his horse gets killed crushing his leg and Jaime flees Kings Landing for assaulting the HoK, show just made the fight longer
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Post by kuczaja on Jul 26, 2018 12:55:41 GMT
Yup. Jaime wasn't involved directly in the fight.
"“Still... we wouldn’t want him to leave here entirely unchastened, so”-through the night and the rain, he glimpsed the white of Jaime’s smile-”kill his men.”
“No!” Ned Stark screamed, clawing for his sword. Jaime was already cantering off down the street as he heard Wyl shout. Men closed from both sides. Ned rode one down, cutting at phantoms in red cloaks who gave way before him. Jory Cassel put his heels into his mount and charged. A steel-shod hoof caught a Lannister guardsman in the face with a sickening crunch. A second man reeled away and for an instant Jory was free. Wyl cursed as they pulled him off his dying horse, swords slashing in the rain. Ned galloped to him, bringing his longsword down on Tregar’s helm. The jolt of impact made him grit his teeth. Tregar stumbled to his knees, his lion crest sheared in half, blood running down his face. Heward was hacking at the hands that had seized his bridle when a spear caught him in the belly. Suddenly Jory was back among them, a red rain flying from his sword. “No!” Ned shouted. “Jory, away!” Ned’s horse slipped under him and came crashing down in the mud. There was a moment of blinding pain and the taste of blood in his mouth.
He saw them cut the legs from Jory’s mount and drag him to the earth, swords rising and failing as they closed in around him. When Ned’s horse lurched back to its feet, he tried to rise, only to fall again, choking on his scream. He could see the splintered bone poking through his calf."
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Post by sourjapes on Jul 28, 2018 20:42:43 GMT
Ned fought and defeated the Kingsguard at the ToJ and fought Jaime Lannister and was only defeated after interference. The game balance reasons would probably be because without it he is garanteed dead at the ToJ every game.
We don't exactly what happened at the Tower of Joy. Surely if Ned and most of his companions were on par with the Kingsguard the outcome wouldn't been so bloody, no? It's debatable of-course, but I think the majority opinion among ASOIAF fandom is that Ned is castle trained and not much more. Brandon was the real warrior of the family, and perhaps even Benjen is a much better warrior.
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Post by rufff1 on Jul 29, 2018 10:33:26 GMT
Surely that just leads to a lot of whataboutery, following that logic seeing as we don't know what happened at the ToJ Howland Reed should only have Trained Fighter rather than Master Warrior, the Kingsguard were some of the most skilled warriors in Westeros and Ned and his companions weren't on a level with them and only 2 survived despite outnumbering the Kingsguard, however that doesn't mean that Ned had to be much worse than them, the guy had been trained as a warrior, probably with a mind to serve Brandon by holding lands as a vassal, he had fostered in the Vale where martial values were extremely important, his best friend was also an extremely skilled warrior in the melee, who he probably trained heavily with, by ToJ he had just fought and helped win a major war where he would have done a significant amount of fighting, he's not on a level with Arthur Dayne or the White Bull and needed Howland to save him but they were legends in their own lifetimes and Yohn Royce is one of the strongest men in Westeros on a level with the Umbers, Crakehalls, Baratheons and Mormonts as one of those families GRRM has made as being natural tall and strong so Yohn could have the same level of overall skill as Ned, just much stronger and therefore able to win
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joona
New Member
Posts: 9
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Post by joona on Jul 31, 2018 11:50:54 GMT
By the way, why is Robert only a skilled fighter? He's definitely a formidable warrior. Robert is not good enough in this game - I mean, I once had Robert lose a duel against Jon Connington right at the start of the Rebellion. That's just ridiculous and ruined the game. Surely Jon was a decent warrior but nowhere near Robert.
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joona
New Member
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Post by joona on Jul 31, 2018 12:01:37 GMT
He's one of the finest commanders, not necessarily finest fighter. Off the top of my head, I don't think we ever actually see him fight in the books. Ok. Now that I think about it, you're right. |
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Post by sourjapes on Aug 1, 2018 1:26:13 GMT
Surely that just leads to a lot of whataboutery, following that logic seeing as we don't know what happened at the ToJ Howland Reed (and all the rest) Yeah, I hear ya'. I wish we had more information. If it were up to me I'd give Howland trained too as I would for any character who fights but we are never explicitly told is a great warrior. I'd make an event for Howland to intervene and kill a character fighting Ned if they're about to kill him and Ned's other companions are dead. Or something. Of-course, I also understand why the devs have done things the way they have. It would be frustrating to play the Robert's Rebellion book-mark as Ned if 9 times out of 10 you were always dying at the TOJ. |
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