Post by nightwatchman on Dec 3, 2017 18:43:49 GMT
This comes up every couple of months/years ( www.tapatalk.com/groups/citadel/submod-ours-is-the-fury-baratheon-lineage-t7488.html / www.tapatalk.com/groups/citadel/joffrey-tommen-becoming-baratheons-after-winning-w-t14127.html) and has been debated to death, including by me, and has been consistently ignored, but here I am bringing it up again.
I understand why the original decision to make them lannisters was made, based off of how the alliance system worked at the time, the need for tywin to come in on joffrey's side in the war, etc... but it seems like the consensus now is that the changes made to the base game allow this to still happen without them being lannisters so there's really no reason they should stay that way, at least if we're trying to be true to the lore, how dynastic succession works, etc...
My opinion has always been that joffrey, tommen, and myrcella should get a cadet dynasty from robert with the split stag/lion coat of arms. with the changes made to the the alliance system this is now feasible, and there's also both textual evidence and in-game precedent for this to exist. Text-wise, heralds refer to Joffrey as "His Grace, Joffrey of the Houses Baratheon and Lannister, the first of his name..." several times in A Game of Thrones ( asearchoficeandfire.com/?q=house+lannister+and+baratheon&scope%5B%5D=agot ). This suggests to me that making a cadet dynasty with the split coat of arms called Baratheon-Lannister would be fine for cersei's children. The in-game precedent for this is the R+L=J decision jon can take after legitimizing rhaegar as his father, becoming a stark-targaryen when he chooses "I will honor both houses". The "I will honor both houses" thing is exactly what Joffrey is doing with listing his Lannister heritage among his titles (and yes, there's a good argument that cersei is who pushes him to do this, but the reason why it happens is sorta irrelevant; his heralds still do refer to him as " of the Houses Baratheon and Lannister").
To expand on the idea somewhat: if renly/stannis win the war against cersei's children an event could pop up making them members of the lannister dynasty with the bastard trait child of incest modifier (this already happens in-game because they get the trait and the modifier and are already lannister dynasts). If cersei's children win however, they should be able to pick the reverse decision and become full members of house baratheon (presumably weighted such that joffrey is likely to keep his cadet house, but tommen/myrcella are more likely to become baratheons).
I understand why the original decision to make them lannisters was made, based off of how the alliance system worked at the time, the need for tywin to come in on joffrey's side in the war, etc... but it seems like the consensus now is that the changes made to the base game allow this to still happen without them being lannisters so there's really no reason they should stay that way, at least if we're trying to be true to the lore, how dynastic succession works, etc...
My opinion has always been that joffrey, tommen, and myrcella should get a cadet dynasty from robert with the split stag/lion coat of arms. with the changes made to the the alliance system this is now feasible, and there's also both textual evidence and in-game precedent for this to exist. Text-wise, heralds refer to Joffrey as "His Grace, Joffrey of the Houses Baratheon and Lannister, the first of his name..." several times in A Game of Thrones ( asearchoficeandfire.com/?q=house+lannister+and+baratheon&scope%5B%5D=agot ). This suggests to me that making a cadet dynasty with the split coat of arms called Baratheon-Lannister would be fine for cersei's children. The in-game precedent for this is the R+L=J decision jon can take after legitimizing rhaegar as his father, becoming a stark-targaryen when he chooses "I will honor both houses". The "I will honor both houses" thing is exactly what Joffrey is doing with listing his Lannister heritage among his titles (and yes, there's a good argument that cersei is who pushes him to do this, but the reason why it happens is sorta irrelevant; his heralds still do refer to him as " of the Houses Baratheon and Lannister").
To expand on the idea somewhat: if renly/stannis win the war against cersei's children an event could pop up making them members of the lannister dynasty with the bastard trait child of incest modifier (this already happens in-game because they get the trait and the modifier and are already lannister dynasts). If cersei's children win however, they should be able to pick the reverse decision and become full members of house baratheon (presumably weighted such that joffrey is likely to keep his cadet house, but tommen/myrcella are more likely to become baratheons).