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Post by partofla on Jul 22, 2019 16:18:15 GMT
Currently in game there are 4 tiers of personal combat skill level: Poor Fighter, Trained Fighter, Skilled Fighter, and Formidable Fighter.
I'm here to argue for a 5th tier, the Legendary Fighter. These would be a once in multiple generation individuals such as Aemon Dragonknight and Arthur Dayne. Such a tier would only be achievable through a minuscule chance once the 4th tier had been attained OR by winning multiple Grand Tournaments (Say like 3 or 4). Characters who achieve this nirvana of fighting superiority ought to be truly terrifying to meet in combat with something like 120 fighting bonus (for reference, current top formidable is 80 fighting bonus). Not invincible, but damned close enough.
I think by adding something like this (no idea how long it'll take or how much effort), you could really spice up the personal combat and add a new dimension and objective for players to pursue. Got that magnificent 14 year old child you've been grooming to be a wheeling dealing agent of death? Now you've got another goal of reaching the very pinnacle of personal combat. Bored because you've achieved everything but feel like you just don't stand out enough with Formidable Fighter? Chase after this dream of being a true legend.
Anyways, just a thought.
P.S. Also would be nice if we had a chance to see dragon portraits for new dragons. In case we want to give them names that make sense with their appearance.
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Toccs
Moderator
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Post by Toccs on Jul 23, 2019 0:26:38 GMT
Currently in game there are 4 tiers of personal combat skill level: Poor Fighter, Trained Fighter, Skilled Fighter, and Formidable Fighter.
There are 5 tiers of combat skill in the mod. No Skill, Poor Fighter, Trained Fighter, Skilled Fighter, and Formidable Fighter.
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Post by lordumber93 on Jul 23, 2019 21:31:42 GMT
I'd rather see a requirement for Formidable fighter. Like strong or quick. That way anyone getting to formidable fighter will actually have the physical ability or mental ability to achieve such a feat.
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Post by rufff1 on Jul 23, 2019 23:00:29 GMT
I'd rather see a requirement for Formidable fighter. Like strong or quick. That way anyone getting to formidable fighter will actually have the physical ability or mental ability to achieve such a feat. ok but consider Jaime - neither a weakling or a dullard but only roughly as strong or as smart as a decently skilled knight, yet nevertheless one of the greatest combatants in Westeros thanks to speed, agility, natural aptitude, and low cunning. Being a great fighter doesn’t mean you’d be a great accountant nor ace your exams nor does it require you to be remarkably strong, instead it rests on speed, competence, experience, and the ability to anticipate an opponent - skills men like Jaime possess without more traditional traits associated with quick thinking or the strength of the mountain or the Greatjon |
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Post by Karl on Jul 23, 2019 23:12:20 GMT
Currently in game there are 4 tiers of personal combat skill level: Poor Fighter, Trained Fighter, Skilled Fighter, and Formidable Fighter.
There are 5 tiers of combat skill in the mod. No Skill, Poor Fighter, Trained Fighter, Skilled Fighter, and Formidable Fighter.
I think he's saying that he wants 5 tiers of combat skill traits, i.e. adding one additional trait on top of what's already there. |
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Post by lordumber93 on Jul 24, 2019 3:01:52 GMT
I'd rather see a requirement for Formidable fighter. Like strong or quick. That way anyone getting to formidable fighter will actually have the physical ability or mental ability to achieve such a feat. ok but consider Jaime - neither a weakling or a dullard but only roughly as strong or as smart as a decently skilled knight, yet nevertheless one of the greatest combatants in Westeros thanks to speed, agility, natural aptitude, and low cunning. Being a great fighter doesn’t mean you’d be a great accountant nor ace your exams nor does it require you to be remarkably strong, instead it rests on speed, competence, experience, and the ability to anticipate an opponent - skills men like Jaime possess without more traditional traits associated with quick thinking or the strength of the mountain or the Greatjon "He is muscular and extremely strong, musing at one point that he could only think of a few men in the Seven Kingdoms stronger than him." Jamie is one of the strongest men in Westeros. Essentially all the great warriors in ASOIAF are written to be particularly strong, agile, or intelligent. Jamie is strong. Rhaegar was smart. Baratheon, Yohn, Loras. All characters who are exceptional warriors, all described as either strong or quick(given this mod lacks agile traits, quick applies to both in the context of my writing). |
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Post by caeserion on Jul 24, 2019 3:42:40 GMT
ok but consider Jaime - neither a weakling or a dullard but only roughly as strong or as smart as a decently skilled knight, yet nevertheless one of the greatest combatants in Westeros thanks to speed, agility, natural aptitude, and low cunning. Being a great fighter doesn’t mean you’d be a great accountant nor ace your exams nor does it require you to be remarkably strong, instead it rests on speed, competence, experience, and the ability to anticipate an opponent - skills men like Jaime possess without more traditional traits associated with quick thinking or the strength of the mountain or the Greatjon "He is muscular and extremely strong, musing at one point that he could only think of a few men in the Seven Kingdoms stronger than him." Jamie is one of the strongest men in Westeros. Essentially all the great warriors in ASOIAF are written to be particularly strong, agile, or intelligent. Jamie is strong. Rhaegar was smart. Baratheon, Yohn, Loras. All characters who are exceptional warriors, all described as either strong or quick(given this mod lacks agile traits, quick applies to both in the context of my writing). Where does it say he is extremely strong and muscular in the text? I can't find that. And all the characters are described as exceptional warriors but nowhere does it say it's brute strength like it does for actually muscle-strong characters like Gregor, Great+smalljon, etc. They are all described as incredibly skilled warriors which is what the traits show. Barristan is old as hell but what makes him dangerous is not speed or strength but rather skill and experience. |
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Post by rufff1 on Jul 24, 2019 7:09:29 GMT
ok but consider Jaime - neither a weakling or a dullard but only roughly as strong or as smart as a decently skilled knight, yet nevertheless one of the greatest combatants in Westeros thanks to speed, agility, natural aptitude, and low cunning. Being a great fighter doesn’t mean you’d be a great accountant nor ace your exams nor does it require you to be remarkably strong, instead it rests on speed, competence, experience, and the ability to anticipate an opponent - skills men like Jaime possess without more traditional traits associated with quick thinking or the strength of the mountain or the Greatjon "He is muscular and extremely strong, musing at one point that he could only think of a few men in the Seven Kingdoms stronger than him." Jamie is one of the strongest men in Westeros. Essentially all the great warriors in ASOIAF are written to be particularly strong, agile, or intelligent. Jamie is strong. Rhaegar was smart. Baratheon, Yohn, Loras. All characters who are exceptional warriors, all described as either strong or quick(given this mod lacks agile traits, quick applies to both in the context of my writing). Ok but Jaime being described as strong is literally by Jaime and we all know GRRM likes his unreliable narrators - Jaime is in good physical condition of course but he’s definitely not on the level of characters famed for their strength and has never demonstrated any amazing feats of pure strength. In practical terms he’s strong sure but in GRRM’s writing when a character is strong it is made exceptionally clear - think of how Dunk, Brienne, Yohn, Robert, the Umbers, Gregor are all handled. You also need to place all this in context, Jaime thinks he is one of the strongest men in Westeros precisely because he can beat even the strongest of men, to him this means he’s clearly also one of the strongest men in Westeros, and this thought crosses his mind at the start of a character arc that makes him reevaluate all of this: he has the thought and then is promptly beaten in a duel by Brienne who is also an exceptional fighter and is also stronger than him, he rationalises this away by thinking “oh well I’ve been locked up and I’m tired”, but then he loses his hand and he is also no longer the exceptional fighter he once was and he realises his skill was innate coordination and other people have to practice in a way he never did and starts training in the process reevaluating what being a gifted fighter means. His fighting skill does not come from his strength or else he wouldn’t have found switching to his left hand so tough, he thinks he’s strong to reinforce that his entire conception of self worth comes from how skilled he is with a sword |
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Post by Karl on Jul 24, 2019 13:55:08 GMT
"He is muscular and extremely strong, musing at one point that he could only think of a few men in the Seven Kingdoms stronger than him." Jamie is one of the strongest men in Westeros. Essentially all the great warriors in ASOIAF are written to be particularly strong, agile, or intelligent. Jamie is strong. Rhaegar was smart. Baratheon, Yohn, Loras. All characters who are exceptional warriors, all described as either strong or quick(given this mod lacks agile traits, quick applies to both in the context of my writing). Where does it say he is extremely strong and muscular in the text? I can't find that. And all the characters are described as exceptional warriors but nowhere does it say it's brute strength like it does for actually muscle-strong characters like Gregor, Great+smalljon, etc. They are all described as incredibly skilled warriors which is what the traits show. Barristan is old as hell but what makes him dangerous is not speed or strength but rather skill and experience. That's a quote from the ASOIAF Wiki. Quoting the Wiki is usually a bad idea. The statement is based on some of Jaime's thoughts from ASOS (Jaime III) while fighting Brienne: She is stronger than I am.
The realization chilled him. Robert had been stronger than him, to be sure. The White Bull Gerold Hightower as well, in his heyday, and Ser Arthur Dayne. Amongst the living, Greatjon Umber was stronger, Strongboar of Crakehall most likely, both Cleganes for a certainty. The Mountain's strength was like nothing human. It did not matter. With speed and skill, Jaime could beat them all. But this was a woman. A huge cow of a woman, to be sure, but even so . . . by rights, she should be the one wearing down.
Instead she forced him back into the brook again, shouting, "Yield! Throw down the sword!"I think it's unclear whether Jaime means that he is super strong and only a few men are stronger than him, or whether he is simply thinking of truly great warriors that are stronger than him, but who he believes he could have beaten anyway. Either way we are most assuredly dealing with an unreliable narrator, as GRRM has stated that Arthur Dayne would be his first pick to defend him in a trial by combat. Good luck trying to beat Dayne, Jaime, especially if Dayne has Dawn... |
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Post by lordumber93 on Jul 25, 2019 1:27:59 GMT
"He is muscular and extremely strong, musing at one point that he could only think of a few men in the Seven Kingdoms stronger than him." Jamie is one of the strongest men in Westeros. Essentially all the great warriors in ASOIAF are written to be particularly strong, agile, or intelligent. Jamie is strong. Rhaegar was smart. Baratheon, Yohn, Loras. All characters who are exceptional warriors, all described as either strong or quick(given this mod lacks agile traits, quick applies to both in the context of my writing). Ok but Jaime being described as strong is literally by Jaime and we all know GRRM likes his unreliable narrators - Jaime is in good physical condition of course but he’s definitely not on the level of characters famed for their strength and has never demonstrated any amazing feats of pure strength. In practical terms he’s strong sure but in GRRM’s writing when a character is strong it is made exceptionally clear - think of how Dunk, Brienne, Yohn, Robert, the Umbers, Gregor are all handled. You also need to place all this in context, Jaime thinks he is one of the strongest men in Westeros precisely because he can beat even the strongest of men, to him this means he’s clearly also one of the strongest men in Westeros, and this thought crosses his mind at the start of a character arc that makes him reevaluate all of this: he has the thought and then is promptly beaten in a duel by Brienne who is also an exceptional fighter and is also stronger than him, he rationalises this away by thinking “oh well I’ve been locked up and I’m tired”, but then he loses his hand and he is also no longer the exceptional fighter he once was and he realises his skill was innate coordination and other people have to practice in a way he never did and starts training in the process reevaluating what being a gifted fighter means. His fighting skill does not come from his strength or else he wouldn’t have found switching to his left hand so tough, he thinks he’s strong to reinforce that his entire conception of self worth comes from how skilled he is with a sword Nice interpretation of Jamie, now, he's not noted like Umbers or anyone for pure strength, but think of who trained him. Men known for their strength and skill, Dayne, The Bold, The White Bull... Crakehall. Fighting people stronger will eventually make you tougher and stronger too. It's never stated Jamie is ambidextrous, so, learning with your non dominate hand is hard, especially for a 30 something year old. He had been starved while in captivity, his statement that he's beaten because of that is actually quite accurate. Given what we've heard of his skills, a healthy Jamie should beat nearly anyone in single combat. He wasn't healthy though. Just thinking logically, you don't become a great warrior without something on your side. Whether it's brains or brawns. So making the top tier combat skill require a trait like that makes sense in game. |
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