|
Post by galrun on Sept 6, 2018 19:33:37 GMT
I think this is going to be one of the most flavourful additions to the mod :-) Is there a chance that this might be released before the holy fury upgrade? This might take till the end of the year from what I read...
|
|
|
Post by galrun on Sept 9, 2018 16:25:41 GMT
Oh, and another detail question that came to mind: How much is the yearly dividend for the shareholders? From the example screenshot I would estimate ir‘s 50% of the yearly profits? Or is this variable, maybe set by the high councillors?
|
|
|
Post by knuckey on Sept 10, 2018 8:43:36 GMT
Oh, and another detail question that came to mind: How much is the yearly dividend for the shareholders? From the example screenshot I would estimate ir‘s 50% of the yearly profits? Or is this variable, maybe set by the high councillors? The dividend is 66% of profits, and is not variable. Shareholders get 5 shares of the dividend and keyholders get 1 share. There is also a minimum cash reserve of 1000 which the bank tries to not go below.
|
|
|
Post by madjester on Sept 16, 2018 20:53:28 GMT
Hey Knuckey,
Sorry I should have been more specific. I meant when making your own bank or using a bank made by a privately created character.
Example 1: If I made a bank as a Lannister ruler of the Rock and LP of the westerlands and the ruler on the iron throne defaulted and says tough titties I'm not paying you back... would that grant me a claim on his title/one of his titles as "collateral" or would I only be able to fund someone that was a claimant.
Example 2: If I made a bank as a duke Reyne of Castamere, and offered a loan to a vassal. Same situation as above.. refusal to pay... do I get a claim on their title?
In the event that there's no claimant to fund, could I choose to designate a claimant OR even better select a courtier to fund as a landless adventure claimant for that specific title?
|
|
|
Post by galrun on Sept 16, 2018 21:16:27 GMT
I think the mechanic is that the bank, as an institution, is looking for a claimant to fund in case of a default. It's not that you, even as founder of the bank, can privately profit by the banks business in matters of claims. That would not make too much sense/I don't think this is intended.
|
|
|
Post by galrun on Sept 16, 2018 21:24:57 GMT
Speaking of privately founded banks: I see some issues with the need for a new bank to get new shareholders. From the numbers in the screenshots I would estimate that one share has an initial worth of 125 gold. To upgrade from keyholder to shareholder that would be an 500 investment. Is the AI capable of saving so much money for a society promotion? Or are you forcing this via events so that a new bank gets a reasonable amount of shareholders over time?
What I'm also asking myself: Shares owned by Keyholders and Shareholders can be inherited. But what happens if a shareholder family dies out? Does the liege or someone else inherit the shares or are they just gone while the invested money stays in the bank? That would mean as a shareholder it is in your interest to murder the other shareholders families in order to get a greater share of the banks dividend :-D And can you decline the inheritage of shares, e.g. if you would like to join another society instead?
I'm so exited to test this feature ^^
|
|
|
Post by knuckey on Sept 17, 2018 9:08:58 GMT
Hey Knuckey, Sorry I should have been more specific. I meant when making your own bank or using a bank made by a privately created character. Example 1: If I made a bank as a Lannister ruler of the Rock and LP of the westerlands and the ruler on the iron throne defaulted and says tough titties I'm not paying you back... would that grant me a claim on his title/one of his titles as "collateral" or would I only be able to fund someone that was a claimant. Example 2: If I made a bank as a duke Reyne of Castamere, and offered a loan to a vassal. Same situation as above.. refusal to pay... do I get a claim on their title? In the event that there's no claimant to fund, could I choose to designate a claimant OR even better select a courtier to fund as a landless adventure claimant for that specific title? I see what you mean now. Currently you cannot get personal claims on debtor's titles, as galrun said the debt is to the institution, however some way of spending influence or something to get a claim could be good. Also in example 2 refusal to pay is a valid imprisonment reason, so you can imprison the vassal and call them to trial if you wish. Speaking of privately founded banks: I see some issues with the need for a new bank to get new shareholders. From the numbers in the screenshots I would estimate that one share has an initial worth of 125 gold. To upgrade from keyholder to shareholder that would be an 500 investment. Is the AI capable of saving so much money for a society promotion? Or are you forcing this via events so that a new bank gets a reasonable amount of shareholders over time? The AI is scripted to take loans to buy shares if possible. However a lack of new shareholders in privately founded banks is something i've already observed, I'm thinking of having shares be split between several children in a gavelkind type situation to alleviate this. What I'm also asking myself: Shares owned by Keyholders and Shareholders can be inherited. But what happens if a shareholder family dies out? Does the liege or someone else inherit the shares or are they just gone while the invested money stays in the bank? Shares can only be inherited by spouses or family. If no heir is found the cash value of the shares is withdrawn, and will probably be inherited by the liege of the dead person. And can you decline the inheritage of shares, e.g. if you would like to join another society instead? You can indeed decline them, you will get the cash value from the bank instead. The same thing happens if you leave the society.
|
|
|
Post by galrun on Sept 17, 2018 17:31:21 GMT
So if you withdraw your money from the bank (either by declined inheritage, leaving the society or whatever), will you get the money you initially payed for the shares (125 each) or a relative share of the banks coin reserve at the time you are leaving? While writing this I get that it has to be the second one, as there is a chance that the bank simple has not enough coin to pay you out.
|
|
|
Post by knuckey on Sept 18, 2018 9:43:05 GMT
So if you withdraw your money from the bank (either by declined inheritage, leaving the society or whatever), will you get the money you initially payed for the shares (125 each) or a relative share of the banks coin reserve at the time you are leaving? While writing this I get that it has to be the second one, as there is a chance that the bank simple has not enough coin to pay you out. You get a relative share of the bank's value. The bank's value is the sum of the cash reserve AND the total outstanding loans granted. And yes, the bank must have enough cash in order to get your full share.
|
|
|
Post by galrun on Sept 19, 2018 9:15:25 GMT
So if you withdraw your money from the bank (either by declined inheritage, leaving the society or whatever), will you get the money you initially payed for the shares (125 each) or a relative share of the banks coin reserve at the time you are leaving? While writing this I get that it has to be the second one, as there is a chance that the bank simple has not enough coin to pay you out. You get a relative share of the bank's value. The bank's value is the sum of the cash reserve AND the total outstanding loans granted. And yes, the bank must have enough cash in order to get your full share.
Nice!
Is the purchase price for shares fixed? In this case I would see a little exploit issue in the system. E.g. you could sell your shares by leaving the society when the bank is doing very well (lets say you get 150 per share). Afterwards you could rejoin the society and on a later promotion buy shares for the fixed price of 125. If you repeat this, you could suck a lot of money out of the bank. So to have a fair system, the purchase price of shares when becoming keyholder or shareholder should also be related to the banks value at that moment. And voila, we have a stock market system ^^ Not sure if this is possible?
|
|
|
Post by knuckey on Sept 19, 2018 13:36:49 GMT
You get a relative share of the bank's value. The bank's value is the sum of the cash reserve AND the total outstanding loans granted. And yes, the bank must have enough cash in order to get your full share. Nice! Is the purchase price for shares fixed? In this case I would see a little exploit issue in the system. E.g. you could sell your shares by leaving the society when the bank is doing very well (lets say you get 150 per share). Afterwards you could rejoin the society and on a later promotion buy shares for the fixed price of 125. If you repeat this, you could suck a lot of money out of the bank. So to have a fair system, the purchase price of shares when becoming keyholder or shareholder should also be related to the banks value at that moment. And voila, we have a stock market system ^^ Not sure if this is possible?
Share price is not fixed, but is variable depending on the current bank value. There is also a small premium on buying shares, so buying and then immediately selling will lose you money. The formula is fairly complicated, but as an example if the bank is worth 1000 and currently has 10 shares in total, the price of buying 1 share would be 120. Selling this share immediately would gain you approx 102.
|
|
|
Post by galrun on Sept 19, 2018 15:51:31 GMT
That's what I wanted to hear :-D Sounds very good
|
|
|
Post by kappa on Sept 21, 2018 8:36:50 GMT
Cool addition. Have you guys thought about any plans for the upcoming DLC mechanics?
|
|
|
Post by madjester on Oct 7, 2018 18:45:44 GMT
I see what you mean now. Currently you cannot get personal claims on debtor's titles, as galrun said the debt is to the institution, however some way of spending influence or something to get a claim could be good. Also in example 2 refusal to pay is a valid imprisonment reason, so you can imprison the vassal and call them to trial if you wish. First sorry for the incredibly late reply, got busy with work. Second, so if the debt is to the institution would it be possible to write the script so that in the absence of a claimant (or in the absence of a claimant willing to take on the original debtors debt/whatever the current mechanic is for that) that the bank itself will go down the list of its society members by most influence and rank? For example, If in the bank of castamere the duke of ashemark has refused payment and all entreaties to garner payment and has no current claimants against his title/immediate heirs of his dynasty: Could the script be written so that within the society's most senior rank then by most influence available to spend people are given the option to spend that influence to "purchase" the bank's claim on the title? An opinion malus within and without the society could help offset accepting that choice, as will making the influence decision also require an investment fee (to purchase) the bank's claim to collateral. This would make sense because if the claimant fails to gain victory and loses the claim to the title then the bank essentially lost it's claim as well. So having to pay both influence and money (cash value dependent on level of the title) would offset this potential loss of claim with collateral, thus benefiting the bank regardless of whether or not the individual is successful in pressing its claim. Along the lines of opinion malus/fear mechanics. Might I recommend instituting a fear mechanic for the banks themselves? People tended to not go against the Iron Bank out of fear for the repercussions. A bank capable of backing up its threats when threatened with non-payment should carry a weight to make non-payment less likely. Or... something of that nature.
|
|
|
Post by galrun on Oct 7, 2018 20:47:58 GMT
Thats not a bad idea But I would rather like to see the bank looking for potential new claimants among strong neighbors or rivals of the debtor and not within the banks members. Handing out claims for money woud be a nice mechanic, as this way the bank is insuring itself against defaults and the other party can get a claim which is has not by other mechanics.
I would also like to see more options for the bank to negotiate wirh defaulters, like threaten to sell a claim or asking for an artifact which then can be sold.
|
|