Post by foxwillow on Nov 27, 2019 15:22:59 GMT
The Flints! Everything surrounding them interests me -- including the peculiarity that three prominent houses kind of carry a question mark regarding who truly is the senior branch. Plus, weirdly, of the vast north, they are nearly as far away from each other as possible.
There's (probably) three branches, since the Breakstones and the First Flints should be one and the same (uh, being of the same name and same location). Then we've got the Fingers and the Watchers.
We know two of these sigils.
I whipped up the watcher Flint sigil cause we didn't have it. I'm not even 100% sure on implementation, but it's good to have it.
So I thought I'd make one for the First Flints.
On a way, way too analytical level for this, I thought that since GRRM called it a "stone" hand -- not just a grey hand -- the stone hand itself could be the original sigil of the Flints. This makes some sense -- their seat is Breakstone Hill and they were kings. Flint is essentially a stone/mineral that is broken -- by hand -- to make weapons and tools. It was one of the most important resources of the Stone Age. Breaking stone... Flint... Stone hand... that all really, really plays together well.
So my unnecessary head-canon and heraldic theory behind the Flint's finger CoA is that the hand itself actually may not be an allusion to their land being called Flint's Finger. But it's possible that the Flints who settled there named the peninsula in reference to their sigil. What I find interesting about that theory is that it would be the opposite of the Watcher Flints and their sigil -- they clearly have a CoA that is 100% based on the location and name of their current holding. It's interesting to think maybe the Finger Flints did the opposite, since they're on opposite sides of the North. That seems a little TLDR and like you'd need to re-read what I said to really get it, so I'll say this: maybe the Finger Flints named their land from their sigil, while the Watcher Flints definitely took their sigil from the name of their land.
Also, the white pale possibly symbolizes the peninsula and the land of "Flint's Finger" itself. The repeating black and grey bars remind me of some imagery when working with the recording of waves... and in an abstract way I see the white as land, especially around and over the hand, while the grey and black on either side symbolize the rhythmic beating of the bay against its shores.
Then there's the caveat of the bit of negative space on the bottom of the pale, which is also black and grey striped.. the triangle peak. I thought -- could that be... a hill? Which could be an awesome reference to their origins at Breakstone Hill. Secondly, and even more down-the-rabbit-hole, since the "stone hand" of House Flint is now above/past the hill, it could be being displayed on the land of the finger -- in white -- to show "we used to live there, now we live here."
If you read that -- congrats -- you may be as much of a dork as me.
Anyway... that last part really stuck with me. In discussing the addition of this sigil, one of the other devs wanted "grey stone on white" for the First/Breakstone Flints. And I thought "yeah that's fine." But I also really wanted to bring my overly-analyzed love of the Flint sigil into it somehow...
So those are the options. I really think "Stone Hand" makes a lot of sense as the Flint sigil in general for a lot of reasons. But I didn't want only a stone hand, cause it felt a little Gardener. Adding the hill symbolism helps differentiate it a lot for me. It may be silly but the theme keeps from First Flints to the Finger Flints this way -- the "Stone Hand" of House Flint is displayed on a white shape symbolizing the current holding.
I won't be torn up if people don't like the hand idea. I'm just curious about the opinions. We won't necessarily go with the poll winner, either. And I may just cede to the other dev. But this is something that I've continually thought about from time to time for like 9 years... and I'm a little less concerned about the final CoA that we use and more geeked about the potential for some discussion. I get very excited about symbolism and love these kinds of convos when other people can bring up imagery and connections I didn't even think about.
There's (probably) three branches, since the Breakstones and the First Flints should be one and the same (uh, being of the same name and same location). Then we've got the Fingers and the Watchers.
We know two of these sigils.
I whipped up the watcher Flint sigil cause we didn't have it. I'm not even 100% sure on implementation, but it's good to have it.
So I thought I'd make one for the First Flints.
On a way, way too analytical level for this, I thought that since GRRM called it a "stone" hand -- not just a grey hand -- the stone hand itself could be the original sigil of the Flints. This makes some sense -- their seat is Breakstone Hill and they were kings. Flint is essentially a stone/mineral that is broken -- by hand -- to make weapons and tools. It was one of the most important resources of the Stone Age. Breaking stone... Flint... Stone hand... that all really, really plays together well.
So my unnecessary head-canon and heraldic theory behind the Flint's finger CoA is that the hand itself actually may not be an allusion to their land being called Flint's Finger. But it's possible that the Flints who settled there named the peninsula in reference to their sigil. What I find interesting about that theory is that it would be the opposite of the Watcher Flints and their sigil -- they clearly have a CoA that is 100% based on the location and name of their current holding. It's interesting to think maybe the Finger Flints did the opposite, since they're on opposite sides of the North. That seems a little TLDR and like you'd need to re-read what I said to really get it, so I'll say this: maybe the Finger Flints named their land from their sigil, while the Watcher Flints definitely took their sigil from the name of their land.
Also, the white pale possibly symbolizes the peninsula and the land of "Flint's Finger" itself. The repeating black and grey bars remind me of some imagery when working with the recording of waves... and in an abstract way I see the white as land, especially around and over the hand, while the grey and black on either side symbolize the rhythmic beating of the bay against its shores.
Then there's the caveat of the bit of negative space on the bottom of the pale, which is also black and grey striped.. the triangle peak. I thought -- could that be... a hill? Which could be an awesome reference to their origins at Breakstone Hill. Secondly, and even more down-the-rabbit-hole, since the "stone hand" of House Flint is now above/past the hill, it could be being displayed on the land of the finger -- in white -- to show "we used to live there, now we live here."
If you read that -- congrats -- you may be as much of a dork as me.
Anyway... that last part really stuck with me. In discussing the addition of this sigil, one of the other devs wanted "grey stone on white" for the First/Breakstone Flints. And I thought "yeah that's fine." But I also really wanted to bring my overly-analyzed love of the Flint sigil into it somehow...
So those are the options. I really think "Stone Hand" makes a lot of sense as the Flint sigil in general for a lot of reasons. But I didn't want only a stone hand, cause it felt a little Gardener. Adding the hill symbolism helps differentiate it a lot for me. It may be silly but the theme keeps from First Flints to the Finger Flints this way -- the "Stone Hand" of House Flint is displayed on a white shape symbolizing the current holding.
I won't be torn up if people don't like the hand idea. I'm just curious about the opinions. We won't necessarily go with the poll winner, either. And I may just cede to the other dev. But this is something that I've continually thought about from time to time for like 9 years... and I'm a little less concerned about the final CoA that we use and more geeked about the potential for some discussion. I get very excited about symbolism and love these kinds of convos when other people can bring up imagery and connections I didn't even think about.