Post by rufff1 on Oct 1, 2019 15:28:02 GMT
In the event that the Seven Kingdoms and the crownlands have been created, the Kingdoms of the Riverlands, the Reach, and the Stormlands have no real way to retake the lands that were formerly theirs. Lets say you are a lord paramount of one of these regions that has successfully declared independence, why should you abide by part of your traditional kingdom being sworn to King's Landing? If you were Storm King what's to stop you from pressing a claim to the Kingswood, if you're King of the Reach why not try to retake Bramsfort or Farring Cross, if you're King of the Trident or king of the North & Trident why not retake the sweep of lands from Duskendale to the Blackwater Rush? After all if you have revoked the treaty by which your kingdom swore fealty to the Targaryens why make an exception for the bits that Aegon took for his own personal vassals? Yes you can currently fabricate claims to provinces or use invasions but both of these take time, leave the area de jure part of the Crownlands, and are viewed as illegitimate, whereas the independent kings of these states would have legimate claims to these areas.
Sadly the game doesn't allow for two parallel de jure loyalties which would be the best way of representing it, but another way would be a decision that allowed the relevant ruler, if he or she was an emperor tier ruler to de jure switch one duchy at a time over to their kingdom, I would suggest it being a duchy at a time to make it a more piecemeal reconquest and avoid the King on the Iron Throne suddenly losing half the crownlands if the ruler of the riverlands issued a reconquest on all lands north of the Blackwater Rush.
I would envisage the process going something like this:
1. The independent king, either with the relevant e_tier title or with a vassal holding the relevant k_tier title (so that Robb or the Iron Islands could reconquer the riverland bits if they were overlords of the Trident for example) has access to a number of decision applying to the relevant duchies that were once part of their kingdom but are currently held by the Iron Throne. As it was founded by Aegon himself King's Landing cannot be reclaimed in this way. I would further limit things so that the event requires the ruler be at peace and that they have no de jure provinces of their realm that are not under their control. This would stop the independent king from being able to spam multiple claims all at once and also is lore justified as they first must secure their kingdom before attempting to expand their borders.
2. If the king invokes that decision their is an immediate massive diplomatic penalty with the Iron Throne, who are outraged at what they deem to be a fabrication on their lands. Additionally when the decision is invoked the relevant duchy is shifted to being de jure a vassal of the relevant kingdom whilst remaining de facto sworn to the Iron Throne, ie if the King of the Stormlands chooses to lay claim to the Kingswood the duchy of the Kingswood and all subordinate counties become de jure vassals of the Stormlands whilst still being sworn to the IT.
3. The King who pressed his claim would then have an event trigger suggesting he declare war, if they refuse the Iron Throne would also have the option to declare war via event, in the event both refuse to declare war at that time the Stormlands (or alternative) would still be able to declare war later on by pressing de jure claims to the relevant duchy.
4. If the IT won the war over time the title will eventually de jure drift back to the IT via normal game mechanics, if the independent ruler won then it would be part of its former kingdom both de jure and de facto.
5. I would further suggest that if the Iron Throne were to lose the relevant duchy then it would not be the end, as the Iron Throne itself would have access to this mechanic for any areas it lost itself, so sticking with the Kingswood and Stormlands example, if an independent Storm King had successfully reconquered the Kingswood with it both de facto and de jure a part of the Stormlands, the Iron Throne could then via decision revert the Kingswood to the Crownlands as it had previously been, creating the opinion malus with the Stormlands and triggering the option of war. This would offer up the likely permanent squabbling over the border that would probably result from an independent neighbour to the Crownlands
Sadly the game doesn't allow for two parallel de jure loyalties which would be the best way of representing it, but another way would be a decision that allowed the relevant ruler, if he or she was an emperor tier ruler to de jure switch one duchy at a time over to their kingdom, I would suggest it being a duchy at a time to make it a more piecemeal reconquest and avoid the King on the Iron Throne suddenly losing half the crownlands if the ruler of the riverlands issued a reconquest on all lands north of the Blackwater Rush.
I would envisage the process going something like this:
1. The independent king, either with the relevant e_tier title or with a vassal holding the relevant k_tier title (so that Robb or the Iron Islands could reconquer the riverland bits if they were overlords of the Trident for example) has access to a number of decision applying to the relevant duchies that were once part of their kingdom but are currently held by the Iron Throne. As it was founded by Aegon himself King's Landing cannot be reclaimed in this way. I would further limit things so that the event requires the ruler be at peace and that they have no de jure provinces of their realm that are not under their control. This would stop the independent king from being able to spam multiple claims all at once and also is lore justified as they first must secure their kingdom before attempting to expand their borders.
2. If the king invokes that decision their is an immediate massive diplomatic penalty with the Iron Throne, who are outraged at what they deem to be a fabrication on their lands. Additionally when the decision is invoked the relevant duchy is shifted to being de jure a vassal of the relevant kingdom whilst remaining de facto sworn to the Iron Throne, ie if the King of the Stormlands chooses to lay claim to the Kingswood the duchy of the Kingswood and all subordinate counties become de jure vassals of the Stormlands whilst still being sworn to the IT.
3. The King who pressed his claim would then have an event trigger suggesting he declare war, if they refuse the Iron Throne would also have the option to declare war via event, in the event both refuse to declare war at that time the Stormlands (or alternative) would still be able to declare war later on by pressing de jure claims to the relevant duchy.
4. If the IT won the war over time the title will eventually de jure drift back to the IT via normal game mechanics, if the independent ruler won then it would be part of its former kingdom both de jure and de facto.
5. I would further suggest that if the Iron Throne were to lose the relevant duchy then it would not be the end, as the Iron Throne itself would have access to this mechanic for any areas it lost itself, so sticking with the Kingswood and Stormlands example, if an independent Storm King had successfully reconquered the Kingswood with it both de facto and de jure a part of the Stormlands, the Iron Throne could then via decision revert the Kingswood to the Crownlands as it had previously been, creating the opinion malus with the Stormlands and triggering the option of war. This would offer up the likely permanent squabbling over the border that would probably result from an independent neighbour to the Crownlands