|
|
Post by Elotyr on Aug 13, 2019 11:51:09 GMT
I doubt i'm the only one who tough of that while playing this mod, but anyone else thing that maybe the Gerrick Kingsblood and his children are descendents of Brynden Rivers? Yes there is not much of evidence to that, but i find really suspicious that the brother of Raymund Redbeard who they descend was called "Red Raven" and the only reason we get for this is "Because his hair was red and the Bard needed a word that rhymed with craven" while a royal bastard with the nickname "Blood Raven" dissapered beyond the Wall around the same time period he would be around. Also makes sense Bloodraven would try to get some childrens going with a wildling before getting his ass stuck in a tree, after all the dude know his blood was special in some way and probrably would try to get his bloodline to endure even if with the Free Folk. But we having two ravens with similar colors beyond the wall cannot be just a coincidence to me, maybe they worked together, Brynder masquerade as him or married one of his daughters and they nicknames got mixed by time... But "Because his hair was red and the bard needed a rhyme to Craven" no relation to the goddam Bloodraven?  So yeah, maybe their "Kingsblood" is of a King south of the Wall rather than one Beyond it. Thoughts? |
|
|
|
Post by lordumber93 on Aug 19, 2019 18:54:04 GMT
They've the blood of Stark's I believe, that's why they call themselves Kings blood.
|
|
aconda
Modder (CK2)
Posts: 376
|
Post by aconda on Aug 19, 2019 22:34:16 GMT
Really nice catch. Wasn't Raymund Redbeard a king beyond the wall? I recall Tormund mentioning to Jon something like the freefolk would even consider siblings of a king able to claim descend, eventhough a different bloodline. Something Stannis and the other southern lords didn't realize and expected Gerrick Kingsblood to have a direct descent from Raymund Redbeard. GRRM uses alot of mnemonics or... parallels between characters, often between a current active timeline and one from an ancient history and will be really fun to look into the Red Raven and Bloodraven.  What is the opinion for Craster to being Bloodraven's blood? |
|
|
|
Post by Elotyr on Aug 20, 2019 1:36:09 GMT
Really nice catch. Wasn't Raymund Redbeard a king beyond the wall? I recall Tormund mentioning to Jon something like the freefolk would even consider siblings of a king able to claim descend, eventhough a different bloodline. Something Stannis and the other southern lords didn't realize and expected Gerrick Kingsblood to have a direct descent from Raymund Redbeard. GRRM uses alot of mnemonics or... parallels between characters, often between a current active timeline and one from an ancient history and will be really fun to look into the Red Raven and Bloodraven. What is the opinion for Craster to being Bloodraven's blood? Yes, Raymun, i misspelled his name in the first post sorry, was a Free Folk King who got pass the Wall and was defeated around Long Lake in 226 AC, his brother fled for beyond the wall and is now only know as Red Raven. The thing is Bloodraven got his ass in the wall in 233 AC, and if i'm not mistaken becomed a ranger, so yeah if Red Raven lived at least 7 more years he would be around during Brynden's trips beyond the Wall. So they at least knowing each other is probrably true. About Stannis if i'm not mistaken Tormmund said that because the rightful King raised the Kingsbloods to nobility and gave their new house tha name "Redbeard" in honor of Raymun. Yes you're totally right about GRRM parallels, but i think he is using more Stannis with Raymun than with the Kingsbloods themselves, a King of Wildlings facing the forces of the North in a lake, we will see how the story goes this time around.  I'm with Preston Jacobs, is a cool youtube channel that i really like about ASOIAF, when comes to Craster being Bloodraven son/blood, if he was with that amount of incest we would have seem one or two albino girls in his keep, with none mentioned i believe it to not be true for now. lordumber93 i don't remember that being a thing, to me was always because of Raymun, do you have some evidence to back this? |
|
|
|
Post by lordumber93 on Aug 20, 2019 3:29:50 GMT
I don't, actually. I just tried looking it up and couldn't find it.im not sure where I got that from unless I'm misremembering something.
|
|
|
|
Post by argotin on Aug 21, 2019 14:17:42 GMT
I don't think so, Brynden was sent on the Wall something about a decade after Red Raven was mentioned
|
|
|
|
Post by Elotyr on Aug 21, 2019 21:33:13 GMT
I don't think so, Brynden was sent on the Wall something about a decade after Red Raven was mentioned 7 years actually as i said in my last post, and that mention is about the defeat of his brother in Long Lake. The thing is Red Raven is mentioned by the Free Folk, a mostly oral culture, what they know about him probrably comes from a song about Raymun, we don't even get a name for him. Also as i said before the only reason we get for that nickname is that "His hair was red and the bard needed a rhyme for craven" but this sounds more like a reasoning from the people who listened to the song along the time, as the real meanining of the nickname most likely was lost because of the wildlings not writing down their story. [Edit] Adding a bit of a random information i got while searching more into this, "Red Raven" was also the name of a war galley in Stannis's fleet during the Black Water Battle, it was rammed and then destroyed by wildfire... Yeah, if Martin goes with the parallels that doesn't sound good to the Redbeards if Stannis start looking for people with kingsblood to burn in Winds of Winter, isn't like that was in their name or something.  |
|
aconda
Modder (CK2)
Posts: 376
|
Post by aconda on Aug 22, 2019 9:27:54 GMT
There might be a cool nightswatch story about them aswell. Bloodraven vs the Red Raven just has that ring to it, fascinating. |
|
|
|
Post by Elotyr on Aug 22, 2019 9:53:31 GMT
There might be a cool nightswatch story about them aswell. Bloodraven vs the Red Raven just has that ring to it, fascinating. Move aside Battle of Bastards, we will have the Battle of (Crimson maybe?) Ravens!  |
|
|
|
Post by lordumber93 on Aug 23, 2019 1:48:18 GMT
I actually had a thought of Val being a descendant of Bloodraven. Just how educated she is, graceful, and her blonde hair and blue eyes. How she bonds with ghost so quickly. Something's different about the free folk's Queen of beauty.
|
|
|
|
Post by Elotyr on Aug 24, 2019 10:57:03 GMT
I actually had a thought of Val being a descendant of Bloodraven. Just how educated she is, graceful, and her blonde hair and blue eyes. How she bonds with ghost so quickly. Something's different about the free folk's Queen of beauty. I thing this is also a fun view, but more when looking to her sister. Dalla nursed Mance back to health and bassically gave to her future bard king a cloak of the Targaryen colors woven from his former black one of the Nightwatch, as in the place Bloodraven was exiled, and scarlet silk from Asshai, as in the place with probrably the most knowledge about magic, the very thing bloodraven was mostly know for dabbling in when not kicking Blackfyres out of Westeros. [Edit] Also thinking in this line, Marwyn maybe would be going to Daenerys with Aemon body and a baby of Bloodraven blood... Get hype for Dragon riding Baby! |
|
|
|
Post by lordumber93 on Aug 24, 2019 14:04:39 GMT
Dun dun dun... The (great?) grandchildren of Bloodraven and Seastar, Dalla and Val. Both mystics, so, I'm sure they had silks from asshai they could pass down.
|
|
|
|
Post by Elotyr on Aug 24, 2019 14:35:16 GMT
Of that i really doubt, Shiera was not the type who would sail to the wall to be with my boy Brynden, the girl was never that into him from what we are told from Martin, seeing the dude more as a source of fun, rejecting his proposals and being amused by his jealously. Also i don't see her being a mystic as Bloodraven, dabling a bit or reading about it? Sure, but she was probrably much more like Rhaenys or the Red Widow, enjoying her life and being called a witch for it. Also, Guy being in love with a empowered woman, never truly conquesting her heart and ending up setling for another(Maybe a wildling)? In a George RR Martin story?!  |
|
|
|
Post by lordumber93 on Aug 24, 2019 18:21:20 GMT
That's just it though, we don't know where she went or why(unless I missed something in the newest book), or if she ever actually got pregnant. It's a huge leap, I won't deny that, still I believe ol' Bloodraven could've convinced her to go before him, or come with him. Especially if she was with child. That's another threat to the throne, and with his reputation, the royal court wouldn't want his children anywhere near them. Seastar did play him like a fiddle, but.... She picked him, in a sense.
|
|
|
|
Post by Elotyr on Aug 24, 2019 19:19:10 GMT
That's just it though, we don't know where she went or why(unless I missed something in the newest book), or if she ever actually got pregnant. It's a huge leap, I won't deny that, still I believe ol' Bloodraven could've convinced her to go before him, or come with him. Especially if she was with child. That's another threat to the throne, and with his reputation, the royal court wouldn't want his children anywhere near them. Seastar did play him like a fiddle, but.... She picked him, in a sense. Yeah she just kind of vanishes, but i doubt the reason was a unplanned pregnancy, after all she probrably knewn enough of alchemy to make herself some moon tea. The thing is what makes me really doubt that they had this level of relationship, that would make her move from KL to the goddam Wall/North or South in hidden is the way Martin and Brynden talked about her. Even Bloodraven don't talk about loving her or that she loved him, to be truthful i see her using the dude more as a tool, after all having the Master of Whispers in your bed to whisper in his ears would make Shiera one of the most powerful persons in Westeros at the time. And the sad thing is Brynden probrably knew that too, but fooled himself in thinking there was a special bond between them... As most protagonists in his other stories... I ask myself if the reason we don't get much about Bloodraven younger years is kind of that, in a some ways he remembers me of the protagonist in Meathouse Man, one of his best stories yet one Martin deslikes... because, holly crap. In a side note, i imagine if the scene of one of those proposals was something like that "Look Shiara can i just marry you already? I killed like 5 guys in duels this month already just to sit with you in dinners, is getting really tiresome!"  |
|
