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Post by warhell10 on Aug 22, 2019 17:59:03 GMT
I highly disagree with the changes regarding King's Landing. Is there any chance we can get a version of this submod without that change?
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Post by rufff1 on Aug 22, 2019 18:06:19 GMT
I highly disagree with the changes regarding King's Landing. Is there any chance we can get a version of this submod without that change? It’d be really fiddly to do as there are so many events tied to kings landing and I have a long term plan that needs the second province (basically a kingdom tier title and an overhaul of the hand of the king for the iron throne) could you outline your objections and I’ll try and tweak things in the next update to see if it can be mitigated |
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Post by warhell10 on Aug 22, 2019 18:19:50 GMT
My objections starts from the simple fact that it's harder to access the king without zooming in, to the more complex issues, such as this being a potential major buff to the king with all those new holdings, and also the fact that it makes little sense when you think of the sieging aspect. One can not take the Red Keep before taking the actual city. The way King's Landing is done now, that would be possible.
And I have to admit that I'm a little conservative, but the way the province worked until now was perfect. I never expected I would see it modified by anyone.
Also, I haven't yet checked, but if this applies to the official sub-mods too....it really makes no sense.
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Post by rufff1 on Aug 22, 2019 18:41:17 GMT
My objections starts from the simple fact that it's harder to access the king without zooming in, to the more complex issues, such as this being a potential major buff to the king with all those new holdings, and also the fact that it makes little sense when you think of the sieging aspect. One can not take the Red Keep before taking the actual city. The way King's Landing is done now, that would be possible. And I have to admit that I'm a little conservative, but the way the province worked until now was perfect. I never expected I would see it modified by anyone. I completely disagree on the sieging aspect and as you say sieging the keep before the city makes no sense and was a driving reason for me splitting it (along with a temple holding besides the high septon, my plans for HOTK, and that other cities are already represented with two holdings - lannisport, volantis etc), the very first holding you used siege was the Red Keep, despite the Keep being within the walls of the city, this way yes you can march your army through the city province but the AI tends to not do so, and if you put an army in the province you can hold the enemy there without threatening the keep as the only way to the Keep is through the city or by sea which is true to the lore. I'm open to to redrawing the province to make it bigger, though still within the city. The new holdings don't actually increase the king's power very much as I tried to maintain balance, the manpower the king has access to is now more, but as it is coming from city holdings it is almost entirely light infantry, and the amount of heavy infantry and cavalry has gone down as I have kept all the castles bar the red keep at low tiers, (so the manpower is now less effective) additionally I have got rid of the Gold Cloaks buildings from the holdings in KL, which previously offered a large boost to heavy cav and heavy infantry, so again the boost from the new holdings is largely offset. Additionally I do think it is a more reflective set up of the lore, King's Landing is a giant city and if you have control of it you also have access to a massive pool of ill disciplined light infantry - a restored Harrenhal can field more troops than Kings Landing which doesn't make sense, Harrenhal, or Winterfell, or the Eyrie have more heavily armed and better trained men, but the manpower available to King's Landing is matched only by Oldtown, also this makes the Commander of the Gold Cloaks a significant political player which he is in the lore, rather than a baron holding a unique minor title |
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Post by warhell10 on Aug 22, 2019 19:00:53 GMT
The castle falling before the city does is a CK2 mechanic. The way I always thought of it is that the first holding from the province represents the majority of the city and the castle, and the rest of them are just left resistance and strongholds.
I do not see how the AI would priotize taking the city province before the castle province though. The AI usually goes for the capital, which by any means, is still the Red Keep. If anything, I think these changes will only bring more confusions.
The holdings will eventually be upgraded to heavens by the AI, or the player. In time, they will give a far superior edge, way bigger than they should be meant to give.
And again, I haven't yet checked, but I'm pretty sure this would conflict with the official sub-mods.
In the end, please don't get me wrong. I admire your ambition and your abilities, it's just that I feel the map changes should be left to a different project, not one that claims to touch bloodlines.
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Post by zexios on Aug 22, 2019 19:19:07 GMT
i love this mod to death, and i am thinking of trying a custom house and playing the long game with no possible claim fabrication rule on, so it will take a long time before we become a major house, so i wanna know if its possible for my exceptional characters to gain bloodlines and by the time we become a great house to have like stacked bloodlines like house targ, stark, lannister etc.
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Post by ogarrr on Aug 22, 2019 20:16:56 GMT
I personally am a big fan of your updates. I'm currently on holiday in Tuscany (poor me), would it be possible to get a preview (quick screenshot) of your changes to the Eyrie, Iron Islands and King's Landing? I'm always in favour of splitting provinces, I personally think the Eyrie would be separate to the Gates of the Moon, Stone, Snow etc in order to make it tougher to take and not the first province taken. Ive also always wanted to make more barons playable such as Wensington, Bolling, Ball etc.
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aconda
Modder (CK2)
Posts: 376
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Post by aconda on Aug 22, 2019 20:29:46 GMT
I personally am a big fan of your updates. I'm currently on holiday in Tuscany (poor me), would it be possible to get a preview (quick screenshot) of your changes to the Eyrie, Iron Islands and King's Landing? I'm always in favour of splitting provinces, I personally think the Eyrie would be separate to the Gates of the Moon, Stone, Snow etc in order to make it tougher to take and not the first province taken. Ive also always wanted to make more barons playable such as Wensington, Bolling, Ball etc. The Gates of the Moon encircles the complete Eyrie.  So with an army raised here, any invading army would need to battle at the Gates of the Moon before being able to pass to the Eyrie. If they win.
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Post by ogarrr on Aug 22, 2019 20:35:50 GMT
The Gates of the Moon encircles the complete Eyrie. So with an army raised here, any invading army would need to battle at the Gates of the Moon before being able to pass to the Eyrie. If they win.
Nothing wrong with that, I've used something similar in my own personal changes. Also makes Nestor more important which is not a bad thing. |
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Post by Elotyr on Aug 22, 2019 20:36:32 GMT
i love this mod to death, and i am thinking of trying a custom house and playing the long game with no possible claim fabrication rule on, so it will take a long time before we become a major house, so i wanna know if its possible for my exceptional characters to gain bloodlines and by the time we become a great house to have like stacked bloodlines like house targ, stark, lannister etc. The default game has a limitation to bloodline creation, i end up using this submod,: agotcitadel.boards.net/thread/2350/agot-forge-bloodlines-submodIs a good way for you house to catch up to the ones in More Bloodlines  |
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aconda
Modder (CK2)
Posts: 376
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Post by aconda on Aug 22, 2019 20:53:49 GMT
The Gates of the Moon encircles the complete Eyrie. So with an army raised here, any invading army would need to battle at the Gates of the Moon before being able to pass to the Eyrie. If they win.
Nothing wrong with that, I've used something similar in my own personal changes. Also makes Nestor more important which is not a bad thing.  |
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Post by rufff1 on Aug 22, 2019 21:22:17 GMT
I personally am a big fan of your updates. I'm currently on holiday in Tuscany (poor me), would it be possible to get a preview (quick screenshot) of your changes to the Eyrie, Iron Islands and King's Landing? I'm always in favour of splitting provinces, I personally think the Eyrie would be separate to the Gates of the Moon, Stone, Snow etc in order to make it tougher to take and not the first province taken. Ive also always wanted to make more barons playable such as Wensington, Bolling, Ball etc. Redrawn Iron Isles imgur.com/a/wE8nfVo Redrawn Giant's Lance imgur.com/a/MpQ8JHrRedrawn Oldtown imgur.com/a/RpDRT0jRedrawn Kings Landing imgur.com/a/4UrxE7mGates of the Moon, City of Oldtown, and City of Kings Landing are all commands (except in FFC where GotM is herediatary after Petyr gives it to Nestor in perpetuity, and KL before it is founded when it is just another province in blackwater bay) The Iron Isles has the following setup (i'm leaving out city and temple holdings which are as in vanilla kingdom duchy of pyke: - lordship of pyke, with new Ironmake barony sworn to it - lordship of iron holt with the codds under them - lordship of lordsport duchy of harlaw - lordship of harlaw hill (main harlaw holding) with two baronies (belonging to the least important harlaw branches) - lordship of grey garden (held by Harras the Knight's branch) - lordship of glimmering tower (held by hotho the humpback's branch) - lordship of volmark - lordship of hangmyre - lordship of shield row (house kenning) - lordship of stonetree duchy of orkmont - lordship of orkmont with orkmont goodbrother barony sworn to them - lordship of nettlebank (house tawney) duchy of blacktyde - lordship of blacktyde duchy of old wyk - lordship of old wyk (2 baronies, goodbrothers of old wyk and the nagga's hill barony) - lordship of stonehouse duchy of saltcliffe - lordship of saltcliffe - lordship of saltford (house sunderly) duchy of great wyk - lordship of hammerhorn - lordship of faroar (house sparr) - lordship of pebbleton (house merlyn) - lordship of corpse lake (house goodbrother cadet) - lordship of sealskin point - lordship of hoare castle - ruined province, not sworn to the isles, can be colonised, but cannot be colonised by mainland - too many sea provinces away not under duchy - lordship of lonelylight |
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Post by ogarrr on Aug 22, 2019 21:34:22 GMT
Bloody awesome. I reckon House Codd should have a county, of only for them being a named house with named characters, (left hand etc). I'm thoroughly impressed, however, and the update is superb.
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Post by sergent on Aug 22, 2019 21:39:20 GMT
I'm quite interested about new county for city like King's Landing, even though the borders could be better (KL is quite difficult to select when you don't zoom up the map). I was surprised by the cadets branches of House Stark in White Harbour and Barrowtown, I don't think I like it, so I just killed them  For the Warg Society, I think the skin changer became too powerful. And there are too many of them. But, despites this, I enjoy a lot your sub-mod, great work ! |
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Post by thespouseofthesun on Aug 22, 2019 21:39:38 GMT
Oh, this update is great. Fantastic job. I really like the Red Keep update; it always seemed weird to me that the Red Keep would always fall before the city.
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